Poasters

Computers and Technology => System Builds & Upgrades => Topic started by: scuzzy on June 19, 2012, 14:05 hrs

Title: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on June 19, 2012, 14:05 hrs
I will probably build one last computer for our household, possibly next year. With the direction that computing is heading, along with our changing needs, it's likely that a laptop (or an ultrabook) will be all we need going forward. My intent is to build a premium system for myself, with carefully selected parts along the way.

I figure I'd start this venture by slowly creating a wish list of items. After reading some reviews, I am thinking of going with Noctua CPU coolers. Although expensive compared to others, their coolers are obviously top notch and seem to be worth the extra $$$. Take a look here (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_13?url=search-alias%3Dcomputers&field-keywords=noctua+cooler&sprefix=noctua+cooler%2Caps%2C282) for some of their offerings. KitGuru.net has a nice review of a Noctua NH-L12 (http://www.kitguru.net/components/cooling/henry-butt/noctua-nh-l12-low-profile-cpu-cooler-review/6/) low profile CPU cooler.

This is obviously just the start. In time, I'll consider the case, CPU, RAM, PSU, etc. I'm sure there will be plenty of tweaks along the way.

As for an OS, I doubt I'll look past Windows 7.

If you have your own ideas of a premium system and/or parts, feel free to share. My ultimate goal is a high performance system that doesn't sound like a jet, while attempting to maintain some resemblance of "bang for the buck".
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on June 20, 2012, 07:12 hrs
Given the rate of technology change, this is a tall order.  What's top-flight today is 'old' 3 months later.  Personally, I'd start with a Cray!

Bill
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on June 20, 2012, 12:49 hrs
You're right, Bill. That's part of the reason there's no hurry. But I figure I can pick out some items along the way, while remaining flexible enough to make needed adjustments. As I get closer to the build I'll start carefully considering the CPU, RAM, video card, etc. My intent is to get the latest technology available, not necessarily the fastest (or most expensive).

I'm thinking a smaller case next time around, with possibly only a single SSD. I'm leaning toward external storage and cloud backup. I'll probably consider this WD My Network N900 router (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0084JFLTY/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller=) with 2TB storage. By the time I start my build, there should be plenty of reviews available.

Scuzzy; I should start shopping for a good floppy drive.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: pat on June 21, 2012, 19:33 hrs
I'll vouch for the Noctua fans and coolers. I use their fans in my systems and use the NH-U12P cooler in my main system. I think the coolers are well made, the fans quiet and move a large volume of air and though somewhat pricey, well worth the price.

Given the "horsepower" of even a moderately priced system these days it shouldn't be too hard to come up with top notch components without breaking the bank.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on June 21, 2012, 20:06 hrs
Well there you go... that's one more positive review for Noctua. I don't mind paying a little extra for quality.

Hopefully I'll get this right on the first try.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: pat on June 22, 2012, 05:18 hrs
Here is my  Original Poast  (http://old.poasters.com/index.php?topic=14998.0) from the old forum about Noctua.

Since then I've moved the cooler to my newer system. 
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 07, 2012, 13:41 hrs
If I were building today, I think I'd start with the following. I'm listing the current prices (Amazon) only to see how much they change later:

Intel Core i7 3770 Processor 3.4 GHz 4 Core LGA 1155 (http://www.amazon.com/Intel-Core-3770-Processor-1155/dp/B007SZ0EHE/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top) ($319.99)

Noctua NH-L12 CPU Cooler (http://www.amazon.com/Noctua-NH-L12-Low-profile-Quiet-Cooler/dp/B007C861WO/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top) ($64.79)

Plextor M3 Pro 128GB SSD (http://www.amazon.com/Plextor-Series-PX-128M3P-2-5-Inch-Warranty/dp/B007MLAXBQ/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top) ($176.55)

or... OCZ Vertex 4 (http://www.amazon.com/OCZ-Industrys-Performance-2-5-Inch-Warranty/dp/B007RARHSO/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top) (128GB = $119.99; 256GB = $239.99)

Seasonic 560W 80 Plus Gold PSU (http://www.amazon.com/Seasonic-560W-Plus-Power-Supply/dp/B0040N55VW/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top) ($124.99)

EVGA GeForce GTX670 FTW 2048MB (http://www.amazon.com/EVGA-Dual-Link-DisplayPort-Graphics-02G-P4-2678-KR/dp/B0083Y6MV6/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top) ($409.99)

Corsair Obsidian Series 550D Black Aluminum / Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139012) (Newegg $139.99 + $12.99 S/H)
Note: This Newegg video review (http://youtu.be/QFND40atnls) convinced me that this is the case I want.

Dell UltraSharp U2412M 24" LED Monitor 1920x1200 eIPS Screen (http://www.amazon.com/Dell-UltraSharp-U2412M-LED-Monitor/dp/B005JN9310/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top) ($313.18)
ExtremeTech review: click here (http://www.extremetech.com/deals/132352-et-deals-dell-ultrasharp-u2412m-24-inch-wuxga-ips-lcd-monitor-for-297?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ziffdavis%2Fextremetech+%28Extremetech%29)

Western Digital My Net N900 HD Dual-Band Router (http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Dual-Band-Router-WDBWVK0000NSL-HESN/dp/B007KZQMO6/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top) ($166.99)

I doubt I'd be willing to pay $400+ for the GTX670 FTW, but I listed it to see how much it goes down in price, if it does. If it gets below $350 by the time I'm ready to build, I may spring for it... unless a better deal comes along.

I only included the router as a reference, as I'll probably need to get a good router at some point. I'm happy overall with my Medialink, but I've noticed that traffic between computers is slow at times when the router is being pushed.

I have no decisions on a motherboard or RAM, and I'll save that for another day. As for an HDD, I'm leaning toward having only an external drive. If I decide on installing an HDD, I'll probably lean toward a WD Raptor. I have no idea if I'll install an optical drive. I would probably install one today, but I may have no need for one in another year. Hmm.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on August 04, 2012, 18:33 hrs
After reading tons of reviews, and lots hemming and hawing, I finally ordered the Plextor M3 128GB from Newegg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820249014) for a total of $129.99. I'll admit that the $20 instant rebate helped. It should arrive this Wednesday or Thursday. Other units I considered were OCZ's Vertex 4, Intel's SSD 330, and Samsung's 830. I briefly considered the SanDisk Extreme, and even Crucial's V4 (3 Gb/S).

No, the Plextor is not the M3 Pro version (M3P). But the differences between the M3 and M3P were too minor, and both carry a 5-year warranty. I took into consideration that I'll be using the SSD with my current system, which only supports SATA 2 (3 Gb/S). That means my system wouldn't know the difference between the M3 and M3P, as my SATA connection will be maxed out anyway. I also like that Plextor clearly states that both the M3 & M3P are backward compatible to SATA I (1.5 Gb/S). That means I'll have the option to someday use it in my HP laptop, or my daughter's Gateway laptop.

My plan is to use the SSD for Windows 7 64-bit and the programs that I regularly use. My current C drive shows less than 35GB in use by Windows, and that's after a couple years of regular use. I don't plan to partition the SSD at this time, but I may reconsider. My data files are currently maintained on two physical hard drives, and I use Dropbox for my critical files. I was using 3 backup hard drives, but only recently dropped one from the mix.

FYIW, I'll do a clean installation of Windows. I would never consider anything else.

Scuzzy; been there done that.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on August 06, 2012, 21:32 hrs
It figures. I was going back and forth between the OCZ Vertex 4 128GB and the Plextor M3 128GB. In the end, I opted for the Plextor. I strongly considered the OCZ for its cheaper price. At the time I bought the Plextor, the OCZ was going for $114.99 at Amazon. The Plextor was $129.99.

Well, leave it to Amazon to have a one day sale of $99.99 for the OCZ (today only). Had I seen that coming, I would have purchased the OCZ for the $30 savings over the Plextor.

Scuzzy; rats.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 12, 2014, 13:39 hrs
I probably need to go through and update my wish list. I obviously haven't done anything, since my current systems continue to meet my needs. But I'm adding the following, nonetheless:

AnandTech: SilverStone NightJar NJ520 Power Supply Review (http://www.anandtech.com/show/8193/silverstone-nightjar-nj520-power-supply-review)
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 16, 2014, 12:30 hrs
Hmm... this looks sweet:

AnandTech: ASUS Z97-PRO WiFi AC Review (http://www.anandtech.com/show/8249/asus-z97-pro-wifi-ac-review)
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 16, 2014, 13:48 hrs
And complicated, most of the stuff the review mentions are unknown to me.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 17, 2014, 18:25 hrs
You know, I'm rushing through too much stuff recently. I need to slow down and read things more carefully. I admit that I skimmed through the article, and then linked it here. But my initial impression was good.

First chance I get I'll read it thoroughly, even if it's awhile before that happens. I am mostly working the maximum allowed every week at my job as a trainer. I am getting abused with excessive hours.  :P
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 18, 2014, 07:33 hrs
That's a grind but it translates to time off, can you put that towards Oct.?
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 18, 2014, 12:05 hrs
That's the plan, Bill. It's pretty much all going toward that time frame. :)
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on August 22, 2014, 14:17 hrs
Ooo...

AnandTech: G.Skill Announces Ripjaws DDR4... (http://www.anandtech.com/show/8416/gskill-announces-ripjaws-ddr4-up-to-ddr43200)
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on August 22, 2014, 14:32 hrs
Pretty pricy stuff.  Is the X99 platform available yet with a complementary CPU?
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on August 22, 2014, 15:57 hrs
As best I can tell, it's not yet available. Of course, it's in the horizon. I'm thinking I might swing a new build after the new year, while taking advantage of the newest technology. But the price has to remain reasonable for whatever parts I'm picking up.

I don't have a dollar figure in mind, but my next build will likely entail a new, high resolution monitor in the 27 inch range.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on August 22, 2014, 16:02 hrs
That's the downside to new technology.  At the moment I'd rather spend the dough on my other hobby!
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on September 05, 2014, 15:44 hrs
Talk about new technology, I'm considering the possible use of a PCIe SSD for my next build. I just need to ensure I get a motherboard that supports booting from the device:

AnandTech: PCIe SSD Faceoff: Samsung vs. OCZ (http://www.anandtech.com/show/8430/pcie-ssd-faceoff-samsung-xp941-128gb-256gb-and-ocz-revodrive-350-480gb-reviewed)

I probably won't begin a build until early 2015, so I'm hoping this tech matures and is fully supported by then. I know I'll pay a premium, but this will probably be my last build. My goal is to "future proof" it as much as reasonably possible.

At a minimum I will look for a motherboard that supports booting from a PCIe SSD.  I can always use a SATA 6Gbps SSD until prices drop on PCIe models, although the current prices aren't outrageous compared to SATA SSD models just a year ago. I'm thinking if I had to (no, I don't have to), I could probably swing a Samsung 512GB model.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on September 05, 2014, 15:56 hrs
Reading the explanation, that could be an impressive improvement in system performance.  Elimination of the SATA 6 limitation is a BIG deal.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on September 05, 2014, 16:04 hrs
That's pretty much what I was thinking. I can see myself using it for the primary OS, and adding a SATA 6 strictly for storage. If I build the system properly, I should see a very significant performance improvement from my current setups.

I'm also considering this ridiculously expensive toy: AnandTech: Dell Previews 27-inch '5K' UltraSharp Monitor (http://www.anandtech.com/show/8496/dell-previews-27inch-5k-ultrasharp-monitor-5120x2880)

Scuzzy; but at $2,500, all I can do is consider it.  :P
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on January 08, 2015, 15:23 hrs
This new Corsair Carbide 100R case (http://www.anandtech.com/show/8840/as-mainstream-as-it-gets-corsair-announces-the-carbine-100r-case) (windowless version) looks like it's right up my alley. Hopefully this is the year I can start building my dream system, and this case looks like a good place to start. The windowless version will sell for $59 and includes USB 3 ports, sound dampening and a fan silencer.

I'll be looking forward to reviews.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on January 08, 2015, 15:40 hrs
And here I thought you were talking about a new rifle!!  Looks like a nice case and a decent place to start.  My only question would be about long video cards.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on January 08, 2015, 15:43 hrs
Long video cards won't be an issue for me. I'll be looking for a good mainstream card, but probably not anything beyond that.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on January 08, 2015, 15:52 hrs
I thought I remembered this last build was to be a "blow you away" machine, a last and best ever?  Doesn't sound like a mainstream video card to me.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on January 08, 2015, 15:57 hrs
Let me rephrase that. I will be looking for a high-quality "mainstream" card, but not a top tier gaming card. The latter adds too much expense and noise for something that I will not need. I don't see going above the $250 to $300 range for a card.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on January 08, 2015, 20:43 hrs
So this is what I'm currently thinking:

Corsair Carbide 100R case (http://www.anandtech.com/show/8840/as-mainstream-as-it-gets-corsair-announces-the-carbine-100r-case) ($59.00)
ASUS Z97-PRO(Wi-Fi ac) LGA 1150 Intel Z97 wireless motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132117) ($210)
Intel Core i7-4790K Haswell Quad-Core 4.0GHz LGA 1150 CPU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117369) ($340)
G.SKILL Trident X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2400 RAM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231589) ($160)
SAMSUNG 850 Pro Series MZ-7KE128BW 2.5" 128GB SATA III 3-D Vertical SSD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147359) ($110)
SILVERSTONE Tek Nightjar NJ520 520W Fanless PSU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256108&ignorebbr=1) ($150)

I'll probably put off the graphics card for a later date/time, since I would not have an immediate need for it anyway.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on January 09, 2015, 15:27 hrs
I updated the list. I'm at $1,029 before a graphics card. That will probably add $250-ish.

I still need to find a CPU cooler, too.

Scuzzy; I want honkin' fast.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on January 10, 2015, 08:45 hrs
scuzzy, I looked at the ASUS board pretty closely and didn't see an external SATA port.  Is there an alternative?  There is a USB port on the rear but if your external drives are SATA.......
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on January 10, 2015, 12:00 hrs
I'm not using an external drive and I haven't in several years. If I ever decide to use one, it will be a USB 3 model connected to my ASUS router so that both my computers can use it. But reality is that Dropbox pretty much gives me all the backup I need. I think I have around 60GB of storage available.

The reason I gravitated to the ASUS board I mentioned was M.2 & SATA Express support, and built-in WiFi & Bluetooth.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on January 10, 2015, 12:08 hrs
I am very happy with my ASUS board, but I don't recall which it is without looking it up.  The one thing I recall that I was happy about was that the SATA ports for the SSD were not numbered.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on January 10, 2015, 12:08 hrs
What do you mean that they weren't numbered?
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on January 10, 2015, 12:14 hrs
IIRC there are 4-6 SATA ports for HDs, when mine first went together I had plugged my SSD into what was listed in BIOS as "Port 1" not "0" as it should have been.  My backup HD was in port 0.  I simply reversed them and all was well.  But they were not numbered.  The only hint was in the user manual listing the "0" port as a different color.  Some of the HD ports are for data only.

Edit: I recall writing a poast about this but I can't find it,  probably buried in another.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on January 10, 2015, 12:41 hrs
Got it.

BTW: Your signature block shows your mobo as Asus P8Z77-V.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on January 10, 2015, 12:43 hrs
Duh, forgot that was there!  You don't see it when writing a reply.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on January 10, 2015, 13:28 hrs
RE: cpu coolers.  The site that ranks video cards on a bang for the buck basis also has a section for CPU coolers and the last time I looked Cooler Master was at the top of the list.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on January 10, 2015, 14:06 hrs
You mean PassMark Software (http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/)?
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on January 10, 2015, 14:25 hrs
No, I don't think so. It may have been Tom's but I really don't remember.  You originally pointed me there when I was looking for a card a couple of years ago.  It maybe gone.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on January 10, 2015, 16:42 hrs
PassMark Software Videocard Benchmarks (http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/) is the only ranking site I've referenced over the years. For that matter it's the only one I'm familiar with. Either way, I will probably settle on a Noctua CPU cooler (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_p_89_0?fst=as%3Aoff&rh=n%3A172282%2Cn%3A541966%2Ck%3Anoctua+cooler%2Cp_89%3Anoctua&keywords=noctua+cooler&ie=UTF8&qid=1420929639&rnid=2528832011).

As for a graphics card, if I were buying today I'd probably spring for this MSI GeForce GTX 970 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127833) ($340).

I hope to start this project in the next 4 to 6 months. I have a good chunk of change put aside already, but I need to save a little more.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on January 10, 2015, 16:51 hrs
Bill, I found my original recommendation to you:

New System Recommendations (http://forum.poasters.com/index.php?topic=1015.msg6099#msg6099)
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on January 11, 2015, 08:12 hrs
Thanks, that was helpful to re-read.  It brought to mind another heads up for you.  The  Noctua CPU cooler I'm using is one of the dual fan models and uses a back plate to mount. But the back plate bolts on from the underside of the M/B and is something you have to do before you mount the board in the case.  And if for some reason you need to work on it, you must take the M/B completely out of the case to get to it  The upside is it is a heck of a lot better than the OEM cooler that arrived with the CPU.

Edit: Say what happened to this idea?  Probably going to be out this year, maybe in time for your build.......http://tinyurl.com/mz7yerh

I think I will wait before even thinking about a new system.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on January 11, 2015, 12:53 hrs
I have not forgotten about CPU cooler back brackets. I will certainly install the cooler while the mobo is out, but I appreciate the reminder.

I'm considering this Transcend 256GB SATA M.2 SSD (http://www.amazon.com/Transcend-MTS800-Solid-State-TS256GMTS800/dp/B00KLTPUYG/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1421002055&sr=1-2&keywords=m.2+sata) (256GB=$119) as a possibility. I still need to research how it will work out with the ASUS Z97 board, but it should support it just fine. I like the idea of mounting the drive directly to the mobo. Aside from one less cable, maybe I can do away with the drive cages entirely.

Maybe some better options will be available by the time I start putting this thing together.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on January 11, 2015, 13:37 hrs
That's interesting but I am having difficulty visualizing how this SSD fits on to the M/B.  Is the M.2 connection the equivalent of a PCIe slot, or something?
Is it for the SATA Express connector?  That I see in the picture of the Z97.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on January 11, 2015, 13:41 hrs
I saw the picture in the link, it doesn't tell me what it is plugged into.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on January 11, 2015, 13:47 hrs
Click this link: ASUS Z97 Pro (http://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/Z97PROWiFi_ac/)

If you look about 1/3 way down the page, you'll see a photo with a rendition of how the SSD connects to the M.2 slot.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on January 11, 2015, 13:53 hrs
Thanks for that link, now I understand, I think.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on January 11, 2015, 14:14 hrs
This short video will help paint a clearer picture: M.2 & PCIe SSDs Explained (http://youtu.be/JVMVjyBA7Q0)
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on January 13, 2015, 07:42 hrs
I truly hope your description of a "clearer picture" was tongue in cheek.  I have watched that video 3 times and aside from having the most annoying voice I've ever heard, the only thing that is clear, to me, is that M.2 is available in several sizes and the B-M is the most common.  I have to assume that the M.2 SSD  is faster than the PCIe becauses it uses 2 PCIe "channels".  I am not at all sure the presenter actually said that.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on January 14, 2015, 02:42 hrs
Maybe this will help:

SSD Guide: PCI-Express, M.2, mSATA And SATA Express – The Differences Explained! (http://rog.asus.com/308552014/labels/guides/ssd-guide-pci-express-m-2-msata-and-sata-express-the-differences-explained/)
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on January 14, 2015, 08:25 hrs
Thank you , yes it did.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on January 14, 2015, 12:54 hrs
This looks promising:

AnandTech: Samsung Launches M951 M.2 PCIe 3.0 x4 SSD... (http://www.anandtech.com/show/8865/samsung-launches-sm951-m2-pcie-30-x4-ssd-for-oemssis)
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on January 14, 2015, 13:27 hrs
That is amazing, 512 g in a 22/80 mm form factor.  Looks like it's going to be awhile before they're available at retail though.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on January 14, 2015, 13:30 hrs
The article estimates 2 months for availability. I probably won't have enough saved until summer, so maybe I'll have more options then. I'll look forward to reviews on the product.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on January 14, 2015, 20:47 hrs
Yet another case to consider. This one is a mid-tower ATX by the German company be quiet!:

be quiet! Silent Base 800 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA68V2CX7981)
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on January 15, 2015, 07:42 hrs
I think this one has great features and would be easier to build.  The previous one considered listed comments below about flat cables for the PSU because that is all that fits.  One of the things that caught my eye was the 140mm case fans.  I checked newegg and they sell replacement Be Quiet case fans in that size for $26, a little pricey IMO.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on January 15, 2015, 09:47 hrs
Unfortunately the be quiet! case won't work unless I buy a new desk. The case is large, standing 559mm (22") tall. The most my desk can reasonably accommodate is 19" in height. Even the Corsair 100R is a bit large compared to what I currently have (15" tall). I looked at the specs and it's either 471mm (18.5") or 430mm (16.9") tall. The specs fail to clarify which is height/depth. I'm thinking (hoping) the height is the 16.9" spec.

The Corsair 100R seems to be more than enough to accept everything I plan on throwing at it. From reading the manufacturer's site (http://www.corsair.com/en-us/carbide-series-100r-silent-edition-mid-tower-case), it should be large enough to accept performance parts with plenty of room. Referring to the 100R, this blurb is from TechPowerUp (http://www.techpowerup.com/208652/corsair-announces-the-carbide-100r-case.html):

Quote
And with up to five fan mounting locations (two fans included), tool-free support for four 3.5" drives and four 2.5" SSDs, and support for long graphics cards, the cases easily support high-end GPUs, liquid coolers, massive storage, and PSUs.

I'll wait to see what reviewers have to say once the case is available.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on January 15, 2015, 12:42 hrs
You must have drawer space under the desk top.  I just measured my desk, no drawers, and its 25 1/4 floor to bottom of desk top.  That means the be quiet case would work for me, if I were building.........
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on January 15, 2015, 13:13 hrs
My desk is designed with a wide keyboard tray that overlaps the computer placement. As such, it loses a few inches.

Even if I had more room, I'm not entirely sure I'd want the larger case. I had a large Antec before, and I was quite happy to downsize. I'm thinking the Corsair will be sufficiently large for my needs. I'm sure as heck not going to upgrade my desk.  ;D
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on January 15, 2015, 13:39 hrs
The price is certainly attractive.  My Solo II measures 17" high with plenty of headroom.  But I don't think I would buy another polished black finish.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on January 15, 2015, 13:55 hrs
I don't blame you on the polished finish. I had once considered an Antec "piano black" finish some 10 years ago. I loved the case, except for the finish. It was distracting enough that I decided on something different.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on June 17, 2015, 02:51 hrs
I probably need to start thinking about what I'm going to build. I'm thinking by end of August I'll start ordering parts.

Scuzzy; it's more fun spending somebody else's money.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on June 21, 2015, 14:18 hrs
So this is where I'm currently leaning:

Fractal Design Arc Midi R2 Mid-tower case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352036) ($110.00)
ASUS Z97-PRO(Wi-Fi ac) LGA 1150 Intel Z97 wireless motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132509) ($215)
or
ASUS Z87-PRO(Wi-Fi ac) LGA 1150 Intel Z87 wireless motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131979&cm_re=asua_z87_pro-_-13-131-979-_-Product) ($120)
Intel Core i7-4790K Haswell Quad-Core 4.0GHz LGA 1150 CPU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117369) ($340)
G.SKILL Trident X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2400 RAM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231589) ($135)
SAMSUNG 840 Evo Series MZ-7TE120BW 2.5" 120GB SATA III 3-D Vertical SSD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA12K1RJ7416) ($130)
be quiet! BN635 Straight Power 600W PSU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA7YP2T65722) ($143)

As for a graphics card, I'll likely spring for either a GTX 960 or a GTX 970. I need to spend some time doing some research.

Nothing is certain on the motherboard, either. There's plenty to consider, so I'll need to dedicate some time on determine what's best for me. I like the idea of built-in wireless, but I may be excessively limiting my choices by doing so.

I'll likely begin building by late August. I'm hoping to build 2 systems, so I'll try and keep them at under $1250 each. Then there's the monitors and keyboards. Sigh.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on June 21, 2015, 14:57 hrs
Maybe I missed it, but I don't see any reference to the m.2 or PCi connection for the plugin SSD.  Are you going to pass on that?
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on June 21, 2015, 16:49 hrs
I'm not entirely sure on PCIe. It seems that it is currently only for OEM and enthusiasts. Setting up a PCIe SSD as a boot drive is not a simple plug and play. From what I've been reading, it can be quite challenging.

Another issue with PCIe is that the drive gets throttled considerably after a couple minutes of running full blast. This is not a problem for booting the drive and launching programs, but it can be problematic when doing intense video editing, etc. This is not an area I'm well versed in, so I don't know how much is fact and how much is fiction.

M.2 is not out of the question, but I still need to research further as to what my options are, bang for the buck, performance, etc. For now I'm listing a standard vertical SSD, which will ultimately be used for storage.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on June 21, 2015, 18:15 hrs
I'm glad you mentioned the M.2 option. In my zeal I failed to notice that the Z87 board does not support M.2, so that board is out of the running for now.

Scuzzy;  I wish I knew what I was doing for my wish list.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on June 24, 2015, 13:09 hrs
I'm inclined to think there won't be a practical, noticeable difference between the M.2 and PCI type connections unless you are doing something very demanding like video editing or such.  SATA 6 is a pretty quick connection.
A quick look at the Asus boards (which would be my choice) shows only a limited number that support M.2 at the moment.  Maybe by the time you're ready offerings will change.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on June 24, 2015, 13:16 hrs
Regardless of brand, most of the Z97 and Z99 boards support M.2. By the way, the only other board I'm seriously considering is Gigabyte. I have been doing some more research here and there, but work has limited my spare time.

As soon as I get a chance I'll do some updates here. But I have decided to go with an M.2 SSD vs. a vertical drive.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on June 25, 2015, 14:49 hrs
Here's a very timely review for the Samsung SM951-NVMe (256GB) PCIe SSD (http://www.anandtech.com/print/9396/samsung-sm951-nvme-256gb-pcie-ssd-review).

The article addresses thermal throttling, which apparently will not make a difference for most users, to include power users. It was also good to know that the drive will boot with most 9-series motherboards, including the ASUS Z97 Deluxe.

The technology is relatively new so it's far from perfect, but it looks like an overall good choice. I'll just have to wait a little while to see what its availability and pricing are. Hopefully I'll have an answer soon, as I'm itching to start a build.

Scuzzy; itching that scratch.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on June 26, 2015, 17:59 hrs
This is where I currently am, if I were buying today:

Fractal Design Arc Midi R2 Mid-tower case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352036) (currently on sale for $75.00)
ASUS Z97-PRO(Wi-Fi ac)/USB 3.1 LGA 1150 wireless motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132509) ($215 - currently out of stock)
- or -
ASUS Z97-A/USB 3.1 LGA 1150 motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132510) ($149)
Intel Core i7-4790K Haswell Quad-Core 4.0GHz LGA 1150 CPU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117369) ($340)
Noctua NH-U9S Premium CPU Cooler (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608067) ($58)
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 1866 RAM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231615) ($109)
SAMSUNG 850 Evo Series M.2 250GB SATA III SSD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA4P02T64861) ($120)
be quiet! BN635 Straight Power 600W PSU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA7YP2T65722) ($143)
EVGA GTX 960 Superclocked 2GB GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 Graphics Card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487093) (currently on sale for $200)

With current pricing that puts the build in the $1,194 to $1,260 range, so it remains more or less within my goal of $1,250 or less per build. Of course, an eventual new 4K monitor and keyboard will blow that out of the water by some $500~.

The more I researched RAM for this build, it seems no more than 16GB of DDR3 1866 is an ideal match for the i7-4790K CPU. There's a lot to consider with frequency vs. price vs. voltage, but 1866 seems to be the sweet spot. Higher frequencies need more voltage and only make a difference in benchmarks. I probably don't need more than 8GB total, but the price for 16GB is doable.

I'm currently leaning toward the ASUS Z97-A mobo for $149, although it does not include wireless. I suppose I could add that myself later.

The case is currently on sale and I'll probably order it after poasting this. Last time I looked it was $110 + $15 shipping. Today it's $75 with free shipping. It's available in a window version for $5 less, but that's not a feature I really care for.

I don't have a firm decision on the graphics card. I'd prefer a GTX 970, but the GTX 960 is no slouch and it's well over $100 cheaper. Current GTX 970 cards are starting at $330, making the GTX 960 a bargain at $200.

As for the storage, the M.2 drive is not PCIe. But the price is right and the performance should not disappoint. I also like the fact that it's a plug and play solution, as compared to PCIe, which is not entirely without its issues. I'll almost certainly go for an external storage solution, such as this Samsung 500GB USB 3.0 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147377), currently selling for $216.

I probably won't immediately need a graphics card. Earlier today my son-in-law gave me a GTX 465 card, so that can easily hold me over for awhile if needed.

This build is going to happen, so any advice, comments, thoughts are certainly welcome.


EDIT: I just ordered the Fractal Design Arc Midi R2 case.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on June 27, 2015, 13:13 hrs
I read the reviews of the less expensive of the 2 ASUS boards.  One of the reviews commented on some confusion regarding which version of M.2 is supported.  In his opinion the SATA M.2 is not supported and the PCIE M.2 is supported.  He may be confused, or I may be but I thought I'd mention it.  However the reviewer said he purchased the wrong SSD and had to reorder.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on June 27, 2015, 14:21 hrs
I read through the reviews and saw that remark. To be honest, I have no idea what he's talking about. That a mainstream board would be designed specifically for M.2 PCIe *only* seems out of par, as the M.2 PCIe form factor is still pretty limited due to its new technology.

It does bear a little research on my part just to be sure.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on June 29, 2015, 11:21 hrs
I think I will go with a Gigabyte motherboard, once again. I have to admit that I'm partial to Gigabyte since I've had such good luck with them, but an ASUS annoyance is probably what pushed me over.

I recall over the years of often having problems with ASUS's support website, such as for downloading drivers, manuals, etc. It seems that I always hit the support site when it's not responding for some reason or another. A couple days ago I tried to get some info on one of the ASUS mobos, just to be met with the usual "sorry but the site is down tough luck my friend try again some other time" crap. So I started looking at Gigabyte. I know, not the best reason, but....

I'm specifically looking at the Gigabyte GA-Z97X-UD5H-BK (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128722) (Black edition), currently going for $179. It's the same board as the $175 Gigabyte GA-Z97X-UD5H (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128707), with the following additions:

1. It's blacked out (I really don't care)
2. It has an extended 168-hour durability test period
3. It's warranted for 5 years vs. 3 years

The board has all the features I want/need, except for WiFi. I'm thinking it's worth the extra $4 for the warranty alone.

While nothing is firm (with the exception of the case), here's where I am so far:

Fractal Design Arc Midi R2 Mid-tower case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352036) (purchased on sale for $75.00)
Gigabyte GA-Z97X-UD5H-BK motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128722) ($179)
Intel Core i7-4790K Haswell Quad-Core 4.0GHz LGA 1150 CPU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117369) ($340)
Noctua NH-U9S Premium CPU Cooler (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608067) ($58)
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 1866 RAM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231615) ($109)
SAMSUNG 850 Evo Series M.2 250GB SATA III SSD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA4P02T64861) ($120)
be quiet! BN635 Straight Power 600W PSU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA7YP2T65722) ($143)
EVGA GTX 960 Superclocked 2GB GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 Graphics Card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487093) (currently on sale for $200)

Estimated damage: $1,224.

On the plus side, my son-in-law gave me a used GTX 465 a couple days ago. It's a pretty beefy card and will probably hold me over for quite a while. So I may forgo a new card, at least for now.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on June 29, 2015, 12:36 hrs
The specs on the Gigabyte M/B look sweet.  I used a Gigabyte board in my last build, the one you are using now.  The exact same experience pushed me to ASUS.  I found the U.S. Gigabyte help/support site slow and annoying. Questions took 2-3 days for an answer and the response always was from a tech for whom English was a second or third language.
Hopefully that has changed.

The rest of your selections look great too.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on June 29, 2015, 13:42 hrs
We'll see, Bill. ASUS is not entirely out of the running, I just got irritated. You know how that goes. The Gigabyte board seems to have everything I need in a nice package.

I'll likely omit a graphics card all together, at least initially. I'm gonna see how the on board graphics works out before I make that decision final.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on June 30, 2015, 11:21 hrs
Darn it. The case went back to its regular price of $110+$15 ($125), which is $50 more than the sale price. I was hoping it would stay on sale until the case I ordered arrived. I just checked FedEx and the new case arrives tomorrow. My plan was to give the case a quick evaluation and then order a second case if I like it enough.

Scuzzy; kostenlos would be nice.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on June 30, 2015, 11:33 hrs
If I were you, I'd order another if I liked it and wait for another component to go on sale.  Maybe you can make up the difference that way.

Always fun spending other people's money!

Edit: You have already reduced the system price, at least temporarily, by dropping the graphics card.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on June 30, 2015, 16:45 hrs
I'll be putting together a 2nd system, but there's no hurry. It will likely follow the first build by a couple months or so. Ideally they'll be identical, but it's not firm. Obviously it will depend a lot on how well the first build works out.

I considered buying 2 cases at once, but I got cold feet as I wanted to be sure that I'll like the case before buying 2.

Scuzzy; every 1's a winner.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on June 30, 2015, 21:55 hrs
I got brave and decided to check ASUS's support site to download the manual for their Z97-A/USB 3.1 board, which I previously mentioned. Looking through the manual for the M.2 specs, it clearly states the M.2 only supports PCIe SSDs.

I find it odd, considering how ASUS brags that this board is "backward compatible." Except for that, apparently.

I won't go as far as to say the board is completely out of the running, but it does give me pause.

Scuzzy; and heartburn, too.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 01, 2015, 09:01 hrs
Interesting, out of the 6 reviews on Newegg, only one mentioned that fact.  The PCIe M2 ssd  may  be the reason there are only 6 reviews.

Also this morning I spent almost 10 minutes on the Gigabyte. us site looking for your selected M/B.  After I found it I think it sounds very impressive including the 4K Intel video supporting your decision to skip a video card.  You can always change your mind.......
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 01, 2015, 23:19 hrs
I took advantage of the 4th of July sale for the G-SKILL Ripjaws (2 sets of 16GB), but I passed on the Samsung SSDs. Here's where I stand so far:

Fractal Design Arc Midi R2 Mid-tower case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352036) (purchased on sale for $75.00)
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900) RAM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231615) (purchased on sale for $90 per set)

Items to follow:
Intel Core i7-4790K Haswell Quad-Core 4.0GHz LGA 1150 CPU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117369) ($340)
Gigabyte GA-Z97X-UD5H-BK motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128722) ($179)
SAMSUNG 850 Evo Series M.2 250GB SATA III SSD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA4P02T64861) ($120)
be quiet! BN635 Straight Power 600W PSU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA7YP2T65722) ($143)
Noctua NH-U9S Premium CPU Cooler (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608067) ($58)

I'm taking the graphics card out of the running for now. I'll wait until my system is together before making that decision. As it stands, I'm at $1,005 for the first system.

I'm still waiting on the case, which was due today. Newegg sent it out on time, but FedEx is dropping the ball. For some reason it's been hanging out in various locations in Kansas for the last 2 days.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 02, 2015, 08:24 hrs
The SSD you passed on was the vertical one, not the M.2 version, also half the size.   But I assume you realised that.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 02, 2015, 14:18 hrs
Yes, I knew it was the vertical. I hope to use M.2 for the OS, and to use the standard SATA III connectors for SSD storage. My plan is to use the Plextor SSDs from my current systems (128GB each), so no real need to buy something new at this time. Having said that, I don't want to overly restrict myself on a certain form factor. I'll continue to study the options as I go.

On another note, I carefully read this Techspot Intel Core i3 vs. i5 vs. i7 article (http://www.techspot.com/review/972-intel-core-i3-vs-i5-vs-i7/) (along with other similar articles). It gives me pause on whether I really need to go with an i7. The Intel i5-4690K Haswell Quad-Core 3.5GHz LGA 1150 CPU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117372) ($240) could very well be sufficient for my needs, and it will save $100 per build. No decisions yet, but for now I'll keep aiming for the i7.

I'm still up in the air with the motherboard. ASUS is back in the running after reading multiple reviews on ASUS vs. Gigabyte. For the boards I'm considering, the ASUS Z97-A is looking better and better. Basic reasons include the board's layout, features, and BIOS. The M.2 PCIe limitation is not such a concern for me anymore, and is something I can work with. I found this Tech Report ASUS Z97-A motherboard review (http://techreport.com/review/26411/asus-z97-a-motherboard-reviewed) helpful.

BTW: My case arrived while I was writing this. I took a quick look and overall it seems quite decent for what I paid ($75). I'm not entirely sure that it is worth the original price tag of $115, but we'll see when I put it all together. The instructions are very minimalist (less than 2-1/2 pages of a small booklet), and the first 1/2 page is to brag about how great the case is and to congratulate the buyer on how smart they are. Not that I need instructions for a case, but I can see how a beginner might need a little more hand holding than what is provided. Regardless, my initial impression is mostly positive. It looks like it will provide for a nice build.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 02, 2015, 16:03 hrs
I read the Tech Report on the ASUS Z97 board and my overall impression was the reviewer was impressed with overclocking options more than anything else.

Personally I liked the Gigabyte board better, maybe because I could understand more of what was being talked about!  My limitation, not yours.

I do like the ASUS handling of the front panel connectors with the removable block that plugs into the board as a unit, I don't remember what they called it.  It is present on my current board as well and was a whole lot easier to use.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 02, 2015, 18:18 hrs
Like anything else, it's all in the details.

There are settings to get the most out of the RAM, activation of the M.2 socket, mobo features, etc. From what I'm gathering, ASUS boards are more polished in this area, especially when dealing with the BIOS. Which reminds me, ASUS has a BIOS start feature. Modern systems boot so fast that getting into the BIOS can be challenging. ASUS boards have a hardwire connector that can connect to the case's reset button, which allows the user easy access into the EUFI BIOS settings. Other things are good fan header layouts, the connector blocks you mentioned, and RAM XMP implementation are easier on the ASUS.

The Gigabyte, like the ASUS, is loaded with overclocking features. But that doesn't do much for me on either board. I've never bothered with overclocking and it's not something I'm really interested in.

The same site has a review of the Gigabyte Z97X-UD5H (http://techreport.com/review/26450/gigabyte-z97x-ud5h-motherboard-reviewed) motherboard.

You know, it's not like I know what I'm doing. I have more questions than I do answers, and at times I feel like I'm just crashing around in the dark.

Scuzzy; still learning.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 02, 2015, 20:29 hrs
I may consider this Samsung SM951 (AHCI) M.2 256GB PCIe SSD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147425) ($230) with an ASUS motherboard. Hopefully the newer NVMe version of this SSD will show up within the next couple weeks or so, but only assuming ASUS supports NVMe SSDs in its firmware updates.

I found this Tom's Hardware Samsung SM951-NVMe Versus AHCI Versus SATA 850 Pro (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/samsung-sm951-nvme-versus-ahci-sata,4137.html) article very informative.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 03, 2015, 08:43 hrs
If I read all that Techno-speak correctly the samsung sm951, as it stands today, will not boot the system without additional firmware,and it sounds like that is anticipated shortly.
The NVMe ssd also requires newly written BIOS on the board.  No?

I just finished the review of the Gigabyte board and I think you're right about the ASUS being the better deal.  The fan header placement alone, compared to the Gigabyte headers along the bottom of the board, would make for a much cleaner and easier build.  Ditto on the connector block.

Hopefully when and if I decide to build another system all of this will be worked out.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 03, 2015, 12:40 hrs
You are correct that the PCIe NVMe SSD requires updated firmware and BIOS that supports it. I don't know where ASUS is on NVMe support, but it does support the PCIe AHCI drive (2 lanes only), which is no slouch in itself. The more I look at this, the more I like the idea of the much faster M.2 PCIe interface. Plus, this configuration does not disable any of the SATA III connectors.

My only concern about ASUS is the tons of complaints of their horrific customer service. It's great when the product works, but when it fails customer service is everything.

I will probably get the remaining parts toward the end of this month. Maybe by then I'll know what I'm doing.

Scuzzy; or maybe not.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 03, 2015, 12:53 hrs
The AHCI is right up there in terms of performance  compared to the 850 Pro and maybe the safest way to go today, but in a month,who knows.
But isn't that always the problem........
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 03, 2015, 16:07 hrs
I've been studying the ASRock Z97 Extreme6 motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157500) ($160). A newly released USB 3.1 version (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157602) ($192) is also available. While it's not perfect, it looks like an overall decent board. I like that it has separate Ultra M.2 PCIe (4 lanes vs. 2) and M.2 SATA connectors. While the board has some quirks, I'm not seeing any showstoppers considering its many positive attributes. Regardless, here's a couple tech reviews:

Tom's Hardware: ASRock Z97 Extreme6 Motherboard (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/enthusiast-z97-motherboard-overclock,3893-2.html) (2014 Smart Buy Award)

The Tech Report: ASRock's Z97 Extreme6 motherboard reviewed
(http://techreport.com/review/27181/asrock-z97-extreme6-motherboard-reviewed)
One more I'm looking at is this ASRock Z97 OC Formula motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157502) ($200). The single M.2 interface supports either SATA3 or PCIe 2nd Gen (2 lanes). The board is loaded with features and comes with a 5-year warranty. (Newegg says 3-year; ASRock site says 5-year.) The only setback I see is that it has a single HDMI option for onboard video, so no dual monitors without a graphics card. Here's the ASRock link: Z97 OC Formula (http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z97%20OC%20Formula/index.us.asp)

While these boards go on about overclocking, I'm more interested in durability and other features. I've never used ASRock in a build (only MSI/ASUS/Gigabyte), but they seem to fare no better or worse than the other manufacturers. But looking through customer reviews, ASRock seems to suffer from poor customer service as well.  ::) FWIW: I did find their support site simple and intuitive. I also like their clearly listed supported M.2 SSD drives (http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z97%20OC%20Formula/index.us.asp?cat=Storage).
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 04, 2015, 08:32 hrs
I looked through the reviews and the section for the Extreme6 lane sharing is beyond me after the 2nd reading.  If it were me I'd skip the Extreme6.
The OC formula seems less confusing but I wouldn't give up dual monitors so a video card would be required.  The other issue, for me, is lack of accommodation for the gen 3 SSDs using 4 lanes.  Doesn't seem quite optimal.  But hey, I'm new at this........
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 04, 2015, 13:36 hrs
If I can eat my cake and have it too, I'd prefer PCIe Gen 3 (4 lanes) as well. But even a 2-lane PCIe is a massive upgrade from my current builds.

I realize that splitting the PCIe lanes 3 ways on the Extreme6 (even if only 2 PCIe options are used) is not ideal. But since I'll use a single GPU card at most, matched with a very fast CPU, I doubt it will matter all that much. I could always use the 3rd PCIe for a dedicated sound card. I also like the idea of having separate M.2 PCIe and M.2 SATA connectors on the same board. I'd be nice to set up the M.2 PCIe with a 3rd Gen SSD boot drive, and the M.2 SATA with an SSD storage drive. That would provide for a very neat setup, along with a very speedy system.

I agree on the OC Formula's native video setup being weak. If I go with this board I'll surely install a GPU card. I need something that supports at least a single 4K monitor, or dual 1080p monitors.

Both boards have their strengths and weaknesses, and there are still other choices to consider. But its looking like the Gigabyte will be out of the picture, at least for now. If I decide on ASRock, I'll have to determine what features are most important to me. I'm not entirely sure on the ASUS Z97-A, but at least it remains on the radar.

You confused me a little. You said you'd skip the Extreme6, but your complaints were of the OC Formula. Does that mean neither board appeals to you?

Scuzzy; eating cake.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 04, 2015, 13:55 hrs
Sorry, yes my complaints or objections to the OC Formula strike that one for me.  But my comments about the Extreme6 were really more about the complexity of the channel/lane/socket sharing that would demand, from me, a great deal more time to understand and ultimately get an optimal set of choices.  Because of that issue alone I'd skip it, not because the rest of the board is less desirable.   You may find it less complex or easier to work with.  Generally, these days, if "best choices" aren't obvious, I do something else.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 04, 2015, 14:55 hrs
Okay, I get it now.

It seems every board on the market will have some amount of give and take. I guess that's true with everything. As for the complexity of the lane sharing, that is done automatically by the motherboard regardless of brand. The reviewers just like to point out how each board handles the sharing.

M.2 sockets, whether PCIe or SATA, will borrow from other connectors regardless of brand. It's a limitation of the form factor and chipsets. For example, if you use the M.2 SATA connector on the Gigabyte, the board automatically disables 2 standard SATA connectors. If you use an M.2 PCIe connector on other brands, it will borrow the appropriate amount of lanes (2 or 4) from the other PCIe connectors. No matter how you look at it, there are only so many lanes to go around and each manufacturer has to determine how to best handle the sharing.

Although the Extreme6 lane sharing seems complex, it's done automatically anyway with no input from the user. Again, it's just the reviewer wanting the reader base to know how the sharing is accomplished. For advanced tech heads and gamers, I suppose those things matter. For the average Joe, they won't really care as long as it works. At worst, the user only needs to activate the M.2 connector in the BIOS settings.

BTW: 4-lane M.2 PCIe connectors are not prevalent on motherboards. The technology is still new and is far from mainstream. ASRock seems to hold the current lead in this area.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 04, 2015, 19:41 hrs
Amazon has the WiFi version of the ASRock Extreme6/ac (http://www.amazon.com/ASRock-Motherboards-Z97-EXTREME6-AC/dp/B00T0HL6LQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1436054186&sr=1-1&keywords=asrock+z97-extreme6%2Fac), currently selling for $180. The more I look at this board, the more it calls out my name.

Scuzzy; as long as it doesn't curse at me.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 05, 2015, 07:14 hrs
Scuzzy, thanks for that explanation, I had no idea that all that was "automatic" depending on the activated connector.  I will go back and look at the Extreme 6, now with an enlightened view.

Do you think that because ASRock says it "supports" the Samsung 951 PCIe 3x 4 lane, the BIOS today allows booting?  The specifications for the Extreme6 section on Storage lists Samsung  gen 3 SSDs  but immediately below that section there is a note with an asterisk  that says "support to be announced"  adding to my confusion.   

A link: http://tinyurl.com/ASRoc-specs    Scroll down for the Ultra M.2
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 05, 2015, 17:46 hrs
The short answer is, "I don't know for sure." I can only speculate that it's a solid, "Very probably most likely yes, I think." I will say that the more I look into the Extreme6, the more I've decided I will base my build on this motherboard. In researching this board I found some excellent and informative reviews on its M.2 form factors. If you have the time I suggest you read through these:

Tom's Hardware: ASRock Extreme6 and Samsung's XP941 (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/samsung-xp941-z97-pci-express,3826.html) (pay attention to page 7, Windows 7 vs. 8 & Samsung's own drivers)

Tom's Hardware Forum: M.2 SSD question (http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2316109/system-ssd-question.html) (read the excellent reply)

The SSD Review: ASRock Extreme6 Tests Samsung XP941 M.2 x 4... (http://www.thessdreview.com/our-reviews/asrock-z97-extreme6-tests-pcie-m2-and-sata-ssds/)

I also found this helpful guide on The SSD Review: The SSD Optimization Guide... (http://www.thessdreview.com/ssd-guides/optimization-guides/the-ssd-optimization-guide-ultimate-windows-8-edition/)

Samsung M.2 PCIe SSDs (4 lanes) appear to be the best performance solution for the Extreme6, pretty much blowing everything else out of the water. Its primary limitation is that Samsung PCIe solutions are currently OEM only, which limits their desktop implementation to enthusiasts willing to do a little extra work. Note that The SSD Review article was posted in May 2014, and they were clear that the Extreme6 did boot from the XP941 after a BIOS update. Apparently there were some unmentioned issues, but the link to resolve those issues is broken (the broken link "discussion here" is on page 6). But again, the review is over a year old. I'm hoping those issues are resolved now through BIOS and driver updates.

As already noted, using the Ultra M.2 connector takes lanes from the other PCIe connectors. The biggest drawback is the limitation placed on dual graphic cards, but that's not something I'd entertain anyway. The real advantage for this board will be when PCIe NVMe SSDs become available. Let's see what Samsung makes available with its 951 over the next few weeks, although I won't hold my breath for a retail implementation.

If you are truly interested in the Extreme6 & SSD M.2 options, no doubt you'll learn from my experiences (in other words, pain) as I put this together.  ;D

I'll poast an update on my parts selection before too long.

Scuzzy; can't wait.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 05, 2015, 19:28 hrs
So here's an update:

Fractal Design Arc Midi R2 Mid-tower case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352036) (purchased on sale for $75.00)
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900) RAM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231615) (purchased on sale for $90 per set)

Items to follow:
Intel Core i7-4790K Haswell Quad-Core 4.0GHz LGA 1150 CPU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117369) ($340)
-or-
Intel Core i5-4690K Haswell Quad-Core 3.5GHz LGA 1150 CPU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117372) ($240)
ASRock Z97 Extreme6 USB 3.1 motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157602) ($192)
be quiet! BN601 Dark Power Pro 650W PSU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA68V21E0639) ($180)
Noctua NH-U9S Premium CPU Cooler (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608067) ($58)

I noticed the price of the G.SKILL RAM went way up. I bought 2 sets on sale for $90 per set. Today they're selling for $180 per set. Ouch.

I'm not entirely sure on the SSD options at the moment, and I'm getting too tired to research them right now. Plextor's M6e (2 lanes) could be an option, after reading The SSD Review article. Or maybe this Kingston HyperX Predator 240GB PCIe x 4 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA24G2U48520) ($250). Feel free to make recommendations if you see something I missed.

I'm still not sure on Intel i5 vs. i7 CPUs. I ask myself, do I really need a Mustang GT to run to the grocery store? The 18-year-old screams out at me, "Of course you do, you idiot. That was a stupid question." The old man in me says, "Are you nuts?"

Scuzzy; well are you, punk?
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 06, 2015, 09:07 hrs
Thanks for all that info, I have read most of it so far.  i5 vs i7, after reading the comparisons, for my money is no longer a question.  i5 is the clear winner.  Same video and audio, slightly larger cache but the real difference seems to be things like photoshop and high demand multi-tasking.  For me that is not terribly attractive, YMMV.

More later, have to run now to the range for the Monday workout.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 06, 2015, 09:20 hrs
I just noticed that the Newegg price for the RAM remains at $109 for a set. It looks like Newegg is out of stock and the listed price ($178 today) is through a 3rd party.

I'm still dancing back and forth on the CPU, but I'm looking at it the same way you are. I don't often do data intensive work, but when I do I tend to get impatient. But the i5 would likely still meet my needs most days and then some. I keep telling myself that even the i5 is leaps and bounds above my current setups.

Have an awesome day at the range, Bill. I'll be out with my wife most of the day.

Scuzzy; packing heat on a mild, summer day.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 06, 2015, 09:57 hrs
Here's a timely CPU HSF review. I have been quietly been looking at beQuiet products, to include their HSF solutions. Noctua products remain my favorite, so far:

AnandTech: Top Tier CPU Air Coolers... (http://www.anandtech.com/show/9415/top-tier-cpu-air-coolers-9way-roundup-review)
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 06, 2015, 13:42 hrs
I am currently using a Noctura 2 fan cpu cooler that is very quiet but I think was expensive.  The NH-D14 in the review is the top dog in that race but it's different than the model you cited, and more expensive.

I read all the reviews except the SSD Optimization Guide and two salient points of information  struck me.  The reviewer was able to load windows and boot from the earlier version of the Samsung SSD XP 941 PCIe board, in 2014, and the SSD provides the drivers in the form of a mini BIOS on the board itself that load before the OS.  I am presuming that Samsung provides the same for the newer PCIe SSD 3x4.  That would take the burden off ASRock and make the Samsung more attractive to builders, I think.

But to your question about if I'm seriously interested in the ASRock board, the answer is I don't know.  My present machine, now about 4 years old, seems to be fine and does everything I ask of it. And since the Noctura case fan died,  is very quiet.   To use your analogy, the 18 yr.old says go for it, the older guy asks why.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 07, 2015, 20:21 hrs
FYI: RAM arrived today.

Scuzzy; ooo, pretty.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 09, 2015, 15:00 hrs
I just ordered this Fractal Design Define R4 Black Pearl (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352020) (silent case) from Newegg, on sale for $80 delivered. Obviously, this will be for the 2nd build.

I'm also giving very serious consideration to this ASUS Z97-E/USB 3.1 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132512) motherboard, currently on sale for $115 + $2.00 S/H. The M.2 feature supports SATA or PCIe (most likely 2 lane). I need time to research if this is a good option, but I gotta run for now.

Scuzzy; pant, pant.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 09, 2015, 15:57 hrs
Looks nice, but I haven't found a review yet that covers or indicates 2 lanes or 4.  The ASUS site for the board describes them as 2 PCIe 2 slots.

www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/Z97DELUXENFC_WLC/

Scroll down the page about half way.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 09, 2015, 18:30 hrs
It looks like you linked the Deluxe motherboard. Here's the correct link: ASUS Z97-E USB 3.1 (http://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/Z97EUSB31/)

What do you think, Bill? I'm pretty sure it will be PCIe 2 lanes on the M.2. I'm out and have no time to research this, but it looks like a nice board all around. It doesn't look like it has a connector block though. No big deal, I suppose.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 09, 2015, 18:39 hrs
Early morning 2.Moro l'll look.
Dinner time!
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 09, 2015, 22:08 hrs
The Asus board has a 2nd generation M.2 (2 lanes), which limits the throughput to 10Gbps (still fast). The ASRock Extreme6 with its 3rd generation M.2 PCIe (4 lanes) is good to 32Gbps.

Somehow the Extreme6 keeps pulling me back. I admit that I really like that it has 2 each M.2 slots as well.

Scuzzy; still don't know what I'm doing.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 10, 2015, 08:11 hrs
This morning I looked at both, the Deluxe and the one you were interested in.  Seems to me the difference between the two are a bunch of optimizers and BIOS add on features, none of which do much for me. The exception is the fan connectors.  The Deluxe uses 4 pin.  It also seems that both boards use 2 lane M.2.  Which by itself is a major improvement but its not 4 lane.  I wonder how big a difference, in real world computing , 10g vs. 32g would make.  Probably not a lot for me but I'm not a very demanding user.  However my general preference is not to buy a second tier product, cars, phones or motherboards. 
The Deluxe ASUS is $335 or so on Newegg the other is $115.
Bottom line ASRock has the M.2 technology of the future and is $160 today.
I wouldn't mind seeing a professional review though by someone like Tom's of the ASUS boards.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 10, 2015, 10:34 hrs
I have wondered the same about 2-lane vs. 4-lane in real world use. Reality is that M.2 PCIe 2-lane will be much faster than anything I'm used to, but having the latest and greatest is always nice.

At issue is that M.2 PCIe 3rd Gen is still a niche market with plenty of room for growth. Most of those taking advantage of it today are enthusiasts who know what they're doing. Well, maybe some of them know what they're doing. I'm not sure what category I fall into. I looked through just about every Z97 motherboard that ASUS has available, including all of their premium boards, and I did not find any with M.2 PCIe 3rd Gen support. Either ASUS is sleeping at the wheel, or they know something we don't. Or maybe we'll see something in their next lineup.

I gravitate to the ASRock Extreme6 because I like the motherboard overall. Their M.2 PCIe 3rd Gen solution is certainly appealing, along with the added M.2 SATA. On the negative side, the manner in which Extreme6 shares lanes takes the primary PCIe graphics connector from 16 lanes to 8 lanes. As for ASUS, they have a lot going for them and I consider that maybe a single 2-lane solution is all I need. Their sharing solution disables 2 of the PCIe single-lane connectors with no effect on the primary PCIe graphics.

Tom's Hardware has this short review of the ASUS Z97-A motherboard (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/mainstream-gaming-z97-motherboard,3824-5.html) (pages 5, 6 & 7), but it's not too informative.

Scuzzy; for my next build I'll struggle with 8-lane vs. 16 lane.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 10, 2015, 10:48 hrs
This maybe simply an uninformed question, but if the Ultra M.2 reduces the PCIe primary to 8 lanes and you don't install a graphics card, what does it matter?
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 10, 2015, 10:54 hrs
If I don't install a graphics card it won't matter, but I almost certainly will. I'm strongly considering a pair of EVGA GTX 960 (1 per build).

I gotta take off again, this time due to a court appearance.

Scuzzy; I swear to tell the truth...
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 10, 2015, 11:13 hrs
Looks then as if ASUS is the right choice.  I found reviews of the EVGA GTX 960 SC and the SSC but not the basic non-overclocked version.  Looks great even if it is a bit of overkill!
PCIe 16x with a monster Card (noisy?) and 2 lanes of M.2.  Now to find the right M.2 gen 2 SSD.

I've lookede at several SSDs just now and the  PCIe AHCI drive would seem to be the safest (most likely to work without a hassle)  right now, and about $110.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 10, 2015, 12:55 hrs
Just to clarify... I will most likely try out the onboard graphics at first, but I'm sure I'll upgrade to a graphics card.

The EVGA GTX 960 4GB PCIe 3x16 GPU card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487128) ($240 today) I'm considering has a "0 db" feature in which the fan stops if the GPU's temp is 60° C or less. The fan ramps up only if the card starts heating up. There's also a 2GB version of this same card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487091), currently on sale for $210 (normally $220). The cases I selected will easily accept this card, so I have no concerns there.  I currently have an EVGA GTX 560 and it has never been excessively noisy. It's usually just a mild hum at most.

For now I'm still tossed between ASRock and ASUS, even if I continue leaning toward the former. I just don't know for sure. To complicate things I'm adding the ASUS Z97-PRO Gamer motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132412) ($160) to the mix. I like the board overall and its sturdiness, and it gets great reviews for its audio and its Intel Gigabit network controller. Don't let the gamer moniker throw you off. The bottom line is that it's a high quality motherboard. There are plenty of professional reviews for the Z97-PRO Gamer, and they are consistently positive.

FWIW: I obviously want the most bang for my buck, but I do have some leeway on the finances. Once this is all done I hope to not have any regrets. I want 2 fast systems identically configured that will hold us over for the next 5+ years.

Scuzzy; holding on.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 10, 2015, 13:19 hrs
That's good news, I missed that bit about the fans, probably along with several other things.

The Newegg reviews for the Gamer are, overall very good, and the couple that had problems also have responses from ASUS.  A good sign.

Bill, my head is swimming.......
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 10, 2015, 13:33 hrs
I'll review the M.2 storage options next. For now, I really am off to court.

Scuzzy; tschuss!
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 10, 2015, 19:21 hrs
I may have found my motherboard, although it is pricey compared to others. It's the ASUS Z97-Pro WiFi AC/USB 3.1 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132509) motherboard ($215 today). The board has a single M.2 PCIe 2-lane connector. The built-in WiFi ac and USB 3.1 are bonuses, especially the WiFi. It was on my list of original goodies that I'd like to see on a motherboard. I much prefer built-in wireless, as compared to an add-on card. Same thing for the USB 3.1, even if it's only 2 connectors.

AnandTech gave it an Editor's Choice Silver Award in this review (http://www.anandtech.com/show/8249/asus-z97-pro-wifi-ac-review).

Now I'm hunting for an M.2 SSD solution.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 11, 2015, 02:27 hrs
I'm getting things narrowed. It's currently a toss up between the ASRock Extreme6 and the ASUS A97-PRO WiFi AC/USB 3.1. If push came to shove I'd probably buy the ASUS today. I'm impressed by the board overall, especially for its upgraded audio, built-in WiFi, USB 3.1 & Intel NIC.

I learned that I can easily add a PCIe 3rd Gen adapter to the ASUS. The problem is that no matter what, the primary PCIe will drop from 16 lanes to 8 when installing a card on one of the secondary 8-lane PCIe slots. It's simply a limitation of the Intel chipset, as there are only so many lanes to go around. This is whether I add a PCIe SSD to the Extreme6's M.2 PCIe 3rd Gen slot, or whether I add a 4-lane PCIe adapter to any other motherboard. So if I use a 4-lane PCIe SSD, the primary PCIe slot drops from 16-lane to 8-lane.

Regardless, I'm considering the ASUS A97-PRO motherboard along with this Kingston HyperX Predator 240GB PCIe 2.0 x 4 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104544) ($260). It's an M.2 SSD mounted to a PCIe adapter. The SSD is a big chunk of change, so it does give me pause. I'm not entirely sure I want to swing 2 of those puppies, especially with the added cost of the ASUS board compared to the Extreme6. But it is a honking fast SSD.

Scuzzy; honk, honk. If I could just get this thing out of second gear...
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 11, 2015, 08:49 hrs
Certainly seems fast but I don't understand the form factor.  My initial reaction was the card mount makes it backwards compatible, but on a board with the M.2 slot why bother. 
I chuckled at the Newegg commenter that tried to put one of these in a Lenovo desktop and the SSD disabled all the internal SATA ports!
Yes it adds 2 more PCIe lanes but at what cost, they have to come from somewhere. I could probably go back and find out.........The cost is also a big issue.

 If you're prepared to use second gen 2 lane with the ASUS Pro, this seems like a bit of over-engineering, beyond the designer's intent.  At times  I think doing so adds additional complications, or at least the potential. 
I understand  the Primary PCIe slot drops to x8 so in either case so your vid, card is effected.  But I think somewhere I read that x8 with a vid. card functions as well as x16, yeah I think I read that somewhere.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 11, 2015, 09:46 hrs
Bill, I'm thinking I won't go that route anyway due to the expense. At some point the pain factor kicks in and you just gotta say "no". But to answer your question the adapter opens up all 4 lanes, vs. the motherboard's 2-lane solution.

I read in one of the tech reviews (heck if I remember which), that the only people who will really benefit from PCIe 4-lane SSDs will be power users who do media intensive work, and such. The reviewer stated that most people, including gamers, will never notice the difference in their daily computing.

For now I'll stay focused on the ASUS Z97-PRO WiFi with whatever PCIe SSDs I can find to take advantage of the M.2 socket. I can always upgrade the SSD down the road if really needed.

The Extreme6 is not off the table yet, but I do have my choice down to one of these two motherboards.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 11, 2015, 10:03 hrs
Well that's progress.  I think I'm glad you've discounted the SSD card form.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 11, 2015, 10:41 hrs
FYI: I found this truly useful M.2 FAQ (http://www.kingston.com/us/ssd/s/m2_faq) at Kingston's site.

While looking through the Z97-PRO WiFi manual, I find that the motherboard supports M.2 Socket 3 "M Key". That means that the socket will physically support PCIe x4/SATA modules, but at a maximum of 2 lanes. So I can connect a 4-lane module to the board, but it will default to 2-lane speeds.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 11, 2015, 11:09 hrs
Wow, the Kingston FAQs have a wealth of information.  It got me to thinking that there must be a reason ASUS specified the M style connector.  They could have specified B.
Speculating now, maybe ASUS is working on an upgrade for the 2 lane boards, or maybe that piece of the hardware will simply carry forward to the next iteration of 4 lane boards.  Only time will tell.  But in either case it narrows the SSD selection some.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 11, 2015, 11:14 hrs
I would think that ASUS used the M standard to accept 4-lane SSDs, even if they can only run at 2-lane speeds on this motherboard. It gives users more compatibility options. I'm guessing their next line up will introduce 4-lane solutions as well.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 11, 2015, 14:54 hrs
Well I hope you have better luck than I've had.  You maybe pushing the envelope for PCIe ssds.  Gone till tomorrow..........
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 11, 2015, 20:39 hrs
Here's another update:

What I have purchased so far:
Fractal Design Arc Midi R2 Mid-tower case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352036) (purchased on sale for $75.00)
Fractal Design Define R4 Silent Mid-tower case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352020) (purchased on sale for $80.00)
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900) RAM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231615) (purchased on sale for $90 per set)
Intel Core i7-4790K Haswell Quad-Core 4.0GHz LGA 1150 CPU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117369) (purchased on sale for $325)

Items to follow:
ASUS Z97-PRO WiFi USB 3.1 motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132509) ($215)
-or-
ASRock Z97 Extreme6/AC motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157568) ($180)
be quiet! Straight Power 500W PSU 80 Plus Gold (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA68V21E0644) ($110)
Samsung 850 EVO M.2 250GB SATA3 SSD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA4P02T64861) ($118)
Noctua NH-D14 CPU Cooler (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608018) ($79)

Eventually, if not sooner:
EVGA GTX 960 4GB PCIe 3x16 GPU card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487128) ($240)

As you can see I went with the i7-4790K (I was a sucker for a $15-off weekend sale). I opted to buy only one, as I want to make sure that my build is what I expect it to be before continuing with the 2nd build. I also upgraded to a better model Noctua CPU cooler.

I was planning on a bigger/better PSU model. But after spending some time at Power Supply Calculator (http://powersupplycalculator.net/), it looks like 500 watts is more than sufficient. Even with an eventual GTX 960 GPU and running the computer 16 hours a day, the calculator recommends a 460 watt PSU. I added extra fans, extra SSDs, an HDD and other peripherals to the calculation, just in case. I even went as far as to overclock the CPU 15% (ain't gonna happen, folks).

As for the SSD, I'm thinking a standard M.2 SATA3 will do for now. Once PCie options are more prevalent, especially NVMe, I can always upgrade if the need is there. I'm betting it won't be necessary any time in the foreseeable future.

Assuming I go with the ASUS motherboard and add a GTX 960 GPU, this places a single build at approximately $1,257~.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 12, 2015, 10:32 hrs
I'm curious what made you discount the SAMSUNG SM951 M.2 PCIe ssd? 
The Noctura NH D14 changes the direction of the airflow from straight up to sideways.  Was that your intention or did you just opt for a higher rated cooler?
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 12, 2015, 13:08 hrs
It's not that the SM951 is entirely out of the picture, so much as I'm thinking of holding out for NVMe. The SM951 NVMe should be released soon (as in any day now) although they'll probably be in short supply initially, which means they'll sell for a premium. I'm also not entirely sure that booting Windows 7 on a Samsung SM951 is a sure thing. I may have to jump through some hoops to make that happen. I have read in multiple forums that the only way to get Windows to boot on an SM951 is by installing Windows through a USB flash drive. Any other way, to include cloning, will not work. I have more questions than answers in that arena.

My other consideration is that if I go with the ASUS A97-PRO WiFi, then I only get a PCIe 2-lane solution on the M.2 socket. To take full advantage of a PCIe 4-lane SSD on that motherboard, I'll have to go with an adapter. Or I could just run the SM951 on 2 lanes and still get better performance than SATA. I consider just waiting for the technology to mature and then go with a PCIe adapter solution. Then I'll tell myself that I should have gone straight to a Z99 motherboard and a 40-lane CPU.  ::)

As for the Noctua, I'm looking at the higher performing cooler is all. I still need some time to look over those options. For that matter, I remain flexible on whatever I haven't purchased. I'm strongly leaning toward the ASUS A97-PRO, but I continue looking hard at the Extreme6. I can still be swayed on the SSD, and I may go for a larger PSU if I catch a good sale. There's still the GPU option as well.

One other fudge factor is that I will have to purchase new copies of Windows. My current computers will go to 2 of my kids, which means the Windows licenses will stay with those builds. So should I buy Windows 7 and possibly upgrade to Windows 10? Should I buy Windows 8.1 to ensure a boot installation on an SM951, and then upgrade to Windows 10? Should I go straight to Windows 10, which I haven't even tried yet and hope it boots on an SM951?

Here's a great Tom's Hardware article on the Samsung SM951-NVMe Versus AHCI Versus SATA 850 Pro (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/samsung-sm951-nvme-versus-ahci-sata,4137.html). The article reminds users that NVMe will only work if the motherboard firmware supports it. From the article, "If your board vendor of choice isn't deliberately adding NVMe support, you won't be booting to an NVMe drive any time soon." I have no idea where the ASUS Z97-PRO is on NVMe support.

This Tom's Hardware forum topic is also timely. The person who replied (JohnnyLucky) has built a fantastic database on SSD reviews, and he makes good points on warranty & support on the SM951. He also points out possible heat issues with M.2: Samsung 850 Pro or Samsung SM951 on Asus Z97-Pro (http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2629011/samsung-850-pro-samsung-sm951-asus-z97-pro.html)

Scuzzy; I am so confused.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 12, 2015, 13:29 hrs
That makes two of us.  But at least you're logical!
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 13, 2015, 14:04 hrs
I gotta rush off to work. But I wanted to update that I bought a pair of Samsung 850 PRO 256GB SATA3 SDDs (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147360), on sale for $144.99 each.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 13, 2015, 14:50 hrs
That solves several problematic decisions all at once (or twice).  Back to a simple sata connector, 2.5" form factor in an already very fast SSD, while you maintain the option to replace later with an M.2 when that gets sorted out.  Good decision in my book, scuzzy wins again!  BTW, I saw no mention of a mounting bracket in the package.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 13, 2015, 15:33 hrs
Thanks for the encouragement, Bill. It was a hard decision, but ultimately I decided to play it safe with a proven SSD. The 10-year warranty was a big motivator.

I have no need for SSD mounting brackets with the new builds. The cases I selected have a built-in feature that allows for up to 2 SSDs to be mounted directly behind the motherboard mounting plate. The SSDs will get screwed directly to the plate before the motherboard is mounted. It's secure, the SSDs will be completely out of sight, and the cabling will be managed through cable grommets.

No firm decision yet, but the ASUS A97-PRO will likely be my pick.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 13, 2015, 15:45 hrs
You might be able to remove the HD cage completely, lots of air circulation then.

After re-reading the reviews I started wondering if the Samsung 850 Pro would be a reasonable upgrade for my present system.  Seems a whole lot faster. "course then I started thinking about a clean install and the work entailed.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 13, 2015, 17:29 hrs
Yes, each case has 2 HDD cages stacked vertically. Each case will have both cages removed completely for my builds.

Here's what I've purchased so far:
Fractal Design Arc Midi R2 Mid-tower case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352036) (on sale $75)
Fractal Design Define R4 Silent Mid-tower case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352020) (on sale $80)
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3 1866 RAM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231615) (2 sets on sale, $90 per set)
Intel Core i7-4790K Haswell Quad-Core 4.0GHz LGA 1150 CPU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117369) (on sale $325)
Samsung 850 PRO 256GB SATA3 SDDs (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147360) (2 ea on sale, $145 ea)

Items to follow:
ASUS Z97-PRO WiFi USB 3.1 motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132509) ($215)
-or-
ASRock Z97 Extreme6/AC motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157568) ($180)
be quiet! Straight Power 500W PSU 80 Plus Gold (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA68V21E0644) ($110)
Noctua NH-D14 CPU Cooler (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608018) ($79)

Eventually, if not sooner:
EVGA GTX 960 4GB PCIe 3x16 GPU card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487128) ($240)

I still need to look at getting a couple DVD burners. I had hoped to do without them, but I often burn and playback audio CDs.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 14, 2015, 00:39 hrs
I may have found the ideal power supply for my needs. Tech reviews rave on these two modular PSUs, which are essentially the same unit. As I understand it Silverstone and SeaSonic collaborated on its design, and both models are manufactured by SeaSonic:

Silverstone Tek Nightjar NJ520 520 watt PSU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256108) ($150)

SeaSonic SS-520FL2 520 watt PSU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151122) ($130)

All the tech reviews I have read agree that they are solid, accurate, and consistently high performing units. They are 80 Plus Titanium certified and completely fanless. There were complaints of capacitor whining (electronic noise) with some early units, but for the most part the problem has been resolved. Supposedly only people with very sensitive hearing will notice, and only if they go looking for it. The only real difference between the two models (besides cosmetics) is that the SeaSonic is currently cheaper and has a better warranty (7 years vs. Silverstone's 5 years).
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 14, 2015, 08:30 hrs
Just for some thought the ASUS X99 E WS - http://tinyurl.com/nzpe8kl - is only $40 more and the LGA 2111-V3 i7 5820k is $50 more (same link).  You could still RMA your i7.

Maybe a bit of overkill but would provide you with plenty of lanes and is slightly more future proof.

In for a penny, in for a pound.......
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 14, 2015, 09:59 hrs
I'd have to RMA the RAM as well. I initially considered the X99 platform, but with building 2 systems and the associated cost I thought twice. I'm pretty sure what I'm putting together will be anything but a slouch, anyway. I have also considered continuing with the first build as planned, but going with an X99 system for the second build.

Scuzzy; still time.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 14, 2015, 10:21 hrs
I was half joking but the second build would definitely be interesting as an X99 but then everyone would want one.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 14, 2015, 10:39 hrs
FYI: I gotta take off early for a DUI hearing in town, followed by a full shift starting a few hours later. But I wanted to update that I bought the SeaSonic PSU I linked above, along with 3 each ASUS DVD writers, on sale at $12.99 each. I figured at that price it wouldn't hurt to have a spare. I'll update the list as I get time.

Scuzzy; running out of time.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 17, 2015, 14:57 hrs
I made a slight adjustment. I RMA'd the G-Skill RAM for a 16GB set of HyperX Fury DDR3 1866, currently on sale for $84. The sticks come in various colors, but they are identical otherwise. I would prefer black, but the blue sticks are the ones on sale. So blue wins. For the sale price they could have been pink for all I care.  ::)

Aside from the HyperX being $6.00 cheaper than the G-Skill, I changed over due to the smaller heat sinks on the HyperX sticks, and its PNP with the ASUS board. As I reviewed the DIMM list, ASUS specifically supports the HyperX, whereas the G-Skill needs manual input. Not a big deal by itself, but more important was the smaller heat sinks on the HyperX. I kept reading too many users fighting with aftermarket CPU heat sinks and tall RAM.

So this is where I am now:

Purchased so far:
Fractal Design Arc Midi R2 Mid-tower case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352036) (on sale $75.00)
HyperX Fury Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3 1866 RAM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104463) (on sale $84)
Intel Core i5-4690K Haswell Quad-Core 3.5GHz LGA 1150 CPU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117372) (on sale $230)
Samsung 850 PRO 256GB SATA3 SDDs (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147360) (on sale $145)
SeaSonic SS-520FL2 520 watt PSU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151122) (on sale $130)
ASUS 24x DVD Burner (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204) (on sale $13)

Items to follow:
ASUS Z97-PRO WiFi USB 3.1 motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132509) ($215)
Noctua NH-D14 CPU Cooler (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608018) ($79)

The total for this build is now at $971. I'll order the remaining parts next week.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 17, 2015, 15:01 hrs
I looked at the G-skill shark fins and wondered how high they were.  You just answered the question.  This is turning out to be an adjust on the fly project.  Guess Premier membership is a good thing!
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 17, 2015, 16:35 hrs
I'm not seeing any other big changes with this build. It's now just a matter of ordering the motherboard and CPU heat sink fan, and then slapping the puppy. Together.

Scuzzy; not necessarily in that order.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 18, 2015, 01:27 hrs
I pretty much ordered the remaining parts for my wife's computer, with a minor goof:

Fractal Design Arc Midi R2 mid-tower case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352036) ($75.00)
HyperX Fury Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3 1866 RAM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104463) ($84)
Intel Core i5-4690K Haswell Quad-Core 3.5GHz LGA 1150 CPU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117372) ($230)
Samsung 850 PRO 256GB SATA3 SDDs (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147360) ($145)
SeaSonic SS-520FL2 520 watt PSU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151122) ($130)
ASUS 24x DVD Burner (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204) ($13)
ASUS Z97-PRO WiFi USB 3.1 motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132509) ($215)
EVGA GTX 960 GPU Card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487091) ($195)

I forgot to order: ::)
Noctua NH-D14 CPU Cooler (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608018) ($79)

Grand total once I order the CPU cooler (tomorrow, I'm tired now) will be $1,166. The parts should all be in by Tuesday or Wednesday.

Scuzzy; bedtime for Bozo.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 18, 2015, 09:34 hrs
If you have time, I'd really like to see "build in process" pictures.  I was wondering this morning, looking at the two cases, do you think you will have to mount the SSD power and data cables before you  fit the motherboard?  Shouldn't be a problem with the modular PSU, just wondering.  I'm also interested in your experience with the front panel connections.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 18, 2015, 10:50 hrs
You bet, Bill. I'll do the best I can. Both cases are identical on the inside. The biggest difference is the sound proofing and the front; one is open, the other has a sound-proofed, aluminum laminated door with magnetic latch. 20/20 hindsight being what it is, I would have purchased 2 of the silent models. But both cases will work out fine for my needs.

The SSDs must be mounted prior to the motherboard since they get screwed down from behind. While it's less than intuitive, it frees up the front HHD racks all together. I'll see how it goes with the front panel connectors. The audio cable looks like it will be just long enough to reach its final destination on the mobo. I noticed ASUS placed the audio connector forward an inch or two, so that will help. It should be a very clean build once it's done. I'll probably start assembly next Wednesday.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 18, 2015, 10:54 hrs
At your leisure, certainly no rush from me!
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 18, 2015, 11:11 hrs
No problem. I forgot to mention that the case for my wife (without the front panel door) will likely work best for her anyway. It's not likely she will want to fiddle with a front door panel. I'm planning on making minor adjustments to her case, such as fan placement and some of my own soundproofing. I'm certainly not expecting that it will be noisy by any means, but the quieter I make it the better. It will undoubtedly be quieter than the current build it's replacing, even without modifications.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 18, 2015, 16:28 hrs
I finally ordered the Noctua CPU heat sink fan cooler. Here are all the parts with the exact price I paid for each, listed by price:

Intel Core i5-4690K Haswell Quad-Core 3.5GHz LGA 1150 CPU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117372) ($229.99)
ASUS Z97-PRO WiFi USB 3.1 motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132509) ($214.99)
EVGA GTX 960 GPU Card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487091) ($194.99)
Samsung 850 PRO 256GB SATA3 SDDs (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147360) ($144.99)
SeaSonic SS-520FL2 520 watt PSU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151122) ($129.99)
HyperX Fury Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3 1866 RAM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104463) ($83.99)
Noctua NH-D14 CPU Cooler (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608018) ($78.49)
Fractal Design Arc Midi R2 mid-tower case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352036) ($74.99)
ASUS 24x DVD Burner (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204) ($12.99)

Note: I just took a look at the HyperX Fury RAM I listed. It's currently showing $204.62. Thankfully with free shipping.  :P

Grand total is $1,165.41. This does not include the $19.99 for 3 months of Newegg Premier, as well as rush shipping on the final items. If there are no unforeseen delays, this Wednesday I'll start slapping this puppy. Together.

Scuzzy; zoom, zoom.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 19, 2015, 08:16 hrs
Your wife will love this one.  Good luck!
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 19, 2015, 08:52 hrs
Hopefully you're right. Once all the parts arrive and I start the build, I will create a new thread to document it with photos.

Thanks for your valuable input along the way, Bill.

Scuzzy; now I have someone to blame if it goes south.  ;D
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 20, 2015, 21:35 hrs
The parts have been trickling in here and there. I've had the cases awhile now, and most recently I received the Samsung SSDs, the DVD burners, an i7 CPU, and the SeaSonic power supply. The bulk of the order should arrive tomorrow and Wednesday. As long as there are no unpleasant surprises, I'll start building this Wednesday. For now the only fudge factor remains the operating system. I believe I have one spare Windows 7 floating around, but I have yet to find it. I'm off Wednesday, so I'll search for it then.

Although I have yet to install it or plug it in, the PSU looks and feels like a solid unit. It oozes quality, and hopefully it won't let me down. But first impressions are good. It's odd not seeing a cooling fan in the unit.

One tidbit of information that I have not shared yet is that I've been paying for this by working DUI shifts on my days off. It's a double bonus as I'm getting drunks off the road, and getting a couple high-speed computers out of the deal.

Scuzzy; works for me.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 21, 2015, 08:20 hrs
These DUI shifts are paying cash, not comp time?  That sounds different.  How about court appearances? 
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 21, 2015, 08:49 hrs
DUI shifts are paid overtime by grants. Our office now pays OT for any time worked over, including court. The only exception is training and report writing, which remains comp time. Funny you should ask about court, as I recently had an unusual rash of court appearances.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: Bill on July 21, 2015, 08:55 hrs
Court would seem to naturally follow DUI citations.  I asked about court because you mentioned it several times.

Just a bit off topic.
Title: Re: Wish List
Post by: scuzzy on July 21, 2015, 09:00 hrs
Oddly enough, I have only had one single DUI go to court in 10 years. I have had plenty of DUI hearings, though.  Training is getting ready to start, so I'll catch up later.