Poasters
Computers and Technology => System Builds & Upgrades => Topic started by: Bill on August 12, 2017, 14:12 hrs
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Starting with:
ASUS Z170 Pro Gaming/AURA LGA 1151 Intel Z170 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 USB 3.0 ATX Motherboards - Intel
Supports W7
and maybe one of these:
Intel Core i5-6400 6 MB Skylake Quad-Core 2.7 GHz LGA 1151 65W BX80662I56400 Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 530
or
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117561&cm_re=i5_6600k-_-19-117-561-_-Product
But in the very early stages.
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Hooray! New builds are always fun, despite being a lot of work. :)
My first thought was whether your build would support W7, but looks like you covered that base. Make sure you do the same with every part going forward, including the case. Lol
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I went back to check on the age of my current rig, turns out it's 8 yrs. old.
Thinking about water cooler, friend swears by them:
www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=maelstrom+water+cooler+120t&N=-1&isNodeId=1
Haven't looked at cases yet, maybe one of the mid size Fractals.
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I dunno about water cooled systems. I have nothing against them, but air cooled has worked well for me. This Noctua NH-D14 120mm & 140mm SSO CPU Cooler (https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608018) has been excellent in both of my latest builds and are nearly perfectly silent.
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Yesterday and today I spent a lot of time cleaning our office, to include disassembling the computers from their current locations to clean them out. While going through that process I thought to myself that I probably wouldn't do a new build today, but instead get 2 high powered laptops to replace the desktops.
I have not fully thought that plan out, as I don't currently have a need. But if I did need to replace any of my two systems, it would be at the top of my mind. During the last few months of my job in the Tech Team, my assigned laptop was connected to a 24" HD monitor, and I used a Bluetooth keyboard and Bluetooth mouse. The combination worked as well as any desktop system for my needs, and I could continue to transport my laptop for use in my patrol car.
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I really have no love for laptops although the bluetooth keyboard eliminates one of my dislikes. But, I think the likelihood of finding a current, high power one with Win 7 is very low.
I think I'll stick to the desktop variety.
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Finding a quality laptop with Win7 these days would certainly be challenging. Either way, you have to do what works best for you.
Besides, putting together a good build is rewarding. As I opened up my builds to execute the dust bunnies, I was reminded of how pleased I am with the work I did. :)
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I've been looking at cases and the new version of the Fractal case looks pretty sweet.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352056&ignorebbr=1
I recall you had a problem mounting the SSD needing a straight cable. Could you have flipped the SSD, twisted the cables and mounted that way? Did the Seasonic PSU not have straight power connectors?
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Turning my SSD 180 degrees would have only turned it upside-down, and flipping it completely around (belly side up) is not a mounting option. I remember using small washers as shims to lift the SSD away from the motherboard, which resolved the problem with the power connector. The washers also provided added cooling by lifting the SSD away from the tray. I could have used one of the HDD cages to mount the SSD, but I wanted a cleaner installation by mounting the SSD behind the mobo and by removing the HDD cages. My wife's build has 2 SSDs mounted behind the mobo, whereas mine has only 1 mounted with one external (USB3).
BTW: Due to mounting locations, it was important to mount the SSD prior to mounting the power supply. I don't recall the details, but think it through to avoid needlessly disassembling and reassembling things.
These photos might help: Wife's Intel Z97 i5-4690K Build (http://forum.poasters.com/index.php?topic=2240.msg14116#msg14116)
I'm thinking M.2 NVMe has matured by now. Is that not an option for the mobo you selected?
The R5 is close to identical in looks to my R4. I have been exceptionally pleased with the R4 and would not think twice about using it again. My R4 is also pretty close to perfectly silent with the fans set to medium speed.
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Ah, I went back and found it...
To install, remove or reinstall the SSD you must first remove the power supply and motherboard.
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Thanks for that, probably saved me tearing it apart.
M2 sata/ PCIe are both supported by this Asus board. I have to do more research, I haven't looked at that since your last build.
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In reference to mounting the SSD, this little blurb from a previous poast might help:
"I removed the motherboard and PSU to remount the SSD. I found some longer screws, and then used aluminum rivet washers as spacers. It worked out perfectly and added nearly 1/4" space between the SSD and the mounting tray. I like this better, as it allows a space for cooling behind the SSD. The connectors are nice and secure.
I also moved the SSD higher up, just in case I have to remove it again. This way I won't have to remove the PSU the next time around."
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A very quick look yields the Samsung 960 Pro M2 voted best in class. Reviewers of the Asus board verify M2 boot capability and it uses an "M" key slot which the Samsung has. Thanks for reminding me. This just became a lot more exciting!! 500g for $235
http://newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=samsung+960+evo+m.2&ignorear=0&N=-1&isNodeId=1
EDIT by Scuzzy (link repaired)
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Per your link, the 960 "EVO" 500GB is $234, and the "PRO" 512GB is $330.
This blurb from one of the reviewers might be worth noting:
"M.2 form factor is convoluted to understand. Some ports support NVMe (PCI-E) only, some support SATA only, and some support both. The trouble is, this information is not always made clear to consumers and it often requires extensive searching to determine what standard(s) your M.2 slot(s) support."
FWIW: The mobo you're considering supports both, so it's probably a moot point.
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I did a comparison of the Pro and the EVO M2, seems the Pro is a little faster. But PCIe gets rid of one of the classic bottlenecks and a couple of cables.
It also eliminates the need for the HD cage completely.
I'm thinking the 500gig version will suffice, I don't store a lot of stuff. Right now my SSD C: has about 70 gigs and the VRaptor has 60 gigs, leaving lots of space on the M2.
Backups can go on an external SSD I already have.
As of now the price tag is about $1000., without the cooler and video card. The cooler I picked in an earlier poast. The video card remains the question. I don't game, nor photoshop but it needs to support at least 1 DVI (preferably 2) and 1 HDMI for my two monitors.
I am looking at an Nvidia GForce GTX 960 but I am open to any other ideas.
EDIT turns out that's what you used, but Newegg is out of stock, maybe its been replaced.?
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If I were building today I'd go with the onboard graphics, which is what I did with my wife's build. The onboard graphics on my mobo supports HDMI, DVI-D, RGB, and DisplayPort ports, so multiple monitors would work fine.
I don't game or do any significant video editing, so I have not been able to take full advantage of the GTX 960. The onboard graphics on my wife's system is more than adequate, even when doing photo edits. For most everything I cannot distinguish a difference in video performance between our systems. I think I needlessly wasted money by buying a graphics card.
I'm sorry I don't recall. I know you considered water cooled, but what specific CPU cooler do you have in mind?
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That thought crossed my mind once or twice. The onboard video on the Asus board has all the right connectors as well. I could always add a video card later if necessary. It would also save me $300 +/-. I think that makes sense.
This is the cooler:
newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA6J35S10074&cm_re=Maelstrom_120-_-13C-002K-00037-_-Product
I could mount this on one of the top of case vents.
The only downside is it ships from Hong Kong.
This cooler would bring the unit price to $1100, give or take.
Going to take a couple of days and think on this. Also going to wait for the next credit card billing cycle. I want to clear the ECO first.
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At the time of my builds, I bought the GTX 960 without giving too much thought for its necessity. It really wasn't until I had both systems fully running when I realized I didn't really have the need for the card, even with 2 monitors running. Thankfully I didn't buy 2 cards.
If you find yourself really wanting a card, I can always send you mine. I seriously doubt that I'll notice a difference anyway.
Nice thing about that liquid cooler is that it's not nearly as bulky as the air cooled solution I have.
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My Aussie friend has 4 rigs all running this cooler and he swears it's the best. Also the piping, he says, is more flexible than other brands.
Thanks for all your help. Ordering maybe end of the week or next.
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Sounds like you're off to a good start. :)
I absolutely love my Fractal R4 case. The top-mounted USB ports can be a little challenging to use, but that's mostly due to the clearance available on my desk. It would have helped if the ports had been mounted at a forward facing angle, but not a deal breaker by any means. There was the SSD mounting issue, but hopefully my experience will make it a non-issue for you.
Be aware that the case is a little on the beefy side, so you may want to carefully consider the dimensions to ensure it will work for you.
Also, I would definitely get the Seasonic fanless PSU again. I have no complaints.
BTW: I'm supposing you noticed the sale on the i5 CPU ends in 4 days, and that it has a promo code (EMCRJBR24) that expires in 3 days.
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Thanks for that info. I have plenty of room for the case under the desk. I looked at the Fanless models but I couldn't find anything larger than 520W. The Seasonic I picked, also modular, is 700+W. Better safe than sorry.
EDIT: I ordered the cooler. Coming from Hong Kong could be a 2-3 week delivery. I'm hoping it will be by the time I order the rest.
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RE: onboard video
I checked the spec. sheet on your wife's system. It says 16gigs of ram? I am assuming you used 8gigs. Do you think that her system would benefit from more ram. Her mobo specs. say maximum shared memory: 512 MB. My mobo specs. quote "shared memory" of 1024MB, which is probably not enough to matter.
But I thought I'd ask........
I found some G Skill RipJaws 2133 DDR 4 for about $72 and added it to the list. (I can overclock the RAM on this board but I don't think I would.)
I'm getting closer... maybe even tomorrow, sales end soon.
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My wife's system, as well as mine, each have 2 sticks of 8GB RAM for a total of 16GB per system. Her system is currently showing 15.7GB usable; mine shows the entire 16GB. I'm fairly confident adding RAM to her system will not yield any noticeable performance, since it performs so well as it is.
I did notice the promo code expiring on the CPU tomorrow.
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Thanks for that, I just changed my order to 16gigs of G Skill Ripjaws 2133. And to be sure I don't miss anything I placed the order with Newegg.
1 x ($239.99) Intel Core i5-6600K 6M Skylake Quad-Core 3.5 GHz LGA 1151 91W BX80662I56600K Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 530
$239.99
1 x ($234.00) SAMSUNG 960 EVO M.2 500GB NVMe PCI-Express 3.0 x4 Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) MZ-V6E500BW
$234.00
1 x ($154.99) ASUS Z170 Pro Gaming/AURA LGA 1151 Intel Z170 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 USB 3.0 ATX Motherboards - Intel
$154.99
1 x ($129.99) G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 2133 (PC4 17000) Intel Z170 Platform / Intel X99 Platform Desktop Memory Model F4-2133C15D-16GVR
$129.99
1 x ($109.99) Fractal Design Define R5 Blackout Silent ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
$109.99
1 x ($89.99) Seasonic FOCUS Plus Series SSR-650FX 650W 80+ Gold ATX12V & EPS12V Full Modular 120mm FDB Fan Compact 140mm Size Power Supply
$89.99
1 x ($19.99) ASUS DVD-Writer 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 24X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM Black SATA Model DRW-24F1ST
$19.99
Subtotal: $978.94
Well I copied live links, sorry about that. See anything I missed?
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Wow. Looks really good, and the price is palatable. I'm looking forward to your experience with the M.2 SSD. I don't think you'll regret leaving out a graphics card, but at least it's an easy fix should you change your mind.
Only 2 things popped into my mind...
1. Will you have a need for a card reader?
2. I take it you're ordering the liquid CPU cooler separately?
Scuzzy; have you considered installing seat belts and getting a crash helmet?
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Thanks, I ordered the cooler yesterday. I have never used a card reader. I guess I could add it if I need it in the future.
I am anxious to try the M2 as well.
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No doubt you're sticking with Windows 7, which I fully endorse. ;D
I know you've put off system updates, but I'd like to suggest that when you install W7 on your new system that you fully update W7 to the bitter end. Once you have all the updates, you can turn off future updates if you wish. You will still be able to fully manage if/how updates are installed, as that has not changed in W7.
I keep my W7 laptop fully updated, and it has not been an issue. It is nothing like W10, which forces updates up my nose whether I like it or not. The difference with W7 is that updates are now issued in groups, which can potentially be harder to diagnose if a particular update gives you a problem. This is not something that is likely to occur in a fresh build, or in a system that is maintained fairly clean. BTW: .NET Framework updates continue to be separate updates, if that's a concern. Either way, I've installed all the updates on my laptop without any issues.
I share your concern with Microsoft's direction, but there really isn't a comparison between updates in W7 & W10. Even if you don't want future updates, I still recommend fully updating it now. Especially if you plan to continue using W7 safely for years to come.
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Thanks for your thoughts. The updates on your laptop sounds like good news. Updates are on my agenda for the new install, for a while. I understand there are a couple of cumulative update files which should make the process easier/shorter. Once I get the system up to date, I may well turn them off again. Sort of depends on how it behaves.
I am really glad I bought a new Win 7 disc a couple of years ago, finding one today might be a bit dicey.
This morning I received Newegg invoices for the system and the cooler, so we are a step closer. No indication when either is going to ship.
I also haven't heard from Wesson about when they're going to return the ECO, I am expecting an email notice today.
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The cumulative updates are smoother than before, but you'll probably still go through the initial pain of "updates on top of updates" during your fresh install. I have not tried since the W7 failure on my main systems, so I don't know for sure. Regardless, once it's all updated it's easy from there on. From my W7 laptop experience so far, I have no reason to turn the updates off. I wish I could say the same for W10.
Sounds like you'll have to be a bit patient. :) I am looking forward to hearing of your M.2 experience. That remains an option for my 2 builds, although reality is they remain stinkin' fast.
I was getting ready to ask about the status of your ECO.
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The last notice I had from Wesson included a nicely phrased "please be patient, we're working on your gun. Please allow us this time."
But for how long???
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Hopefully you'll know something soon.
I just remembered that when I first got my laptops (I bought 2 if you remember; the first for my daughter), both gave me a bit of an issue with the W7 updates. Somewhere in the update process, I literally had to leave the updates running overnight. Both laptops were stuck in Update Hell in which nothing seemed to be happening. All was fine afterward, but that was frustrating.
Hopefully it's not something you'll experience. If so, just run it overnight. If memory serves me well, the "stuck updates" took 8 to 12 hours to download and install.
Here it is. Apparently it took even longer than I thought: DELL Latitude E7240 UltraBook (http://forum.poasters.com/index.php?topic=2701.msg17437#msg17437)
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Now that you mentioned it, I remember that episode of updates. I hope MS it better now for Win 7. I noticed in the linked thread that you mentioned MS Security Essentials. I recall that MSSE used to be laughed at, today it is the security program of choice for many, including me.
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MSSE is all the antivirus I need. I also use Malwarebytes Premium, which I will renew later this year. The two together provide excellent security.
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Newegg just sent tracking #s for the main system parts, and the case separately. So I'd guess it will ship tonight, tracking effective tomorrow! Pretty decent service.
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FedEx tracking says system parts and case will be here tomorrow -Thursday! :D
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Hooray! If the CPU cooler is the only thing you're waiting on, will you be able to complete the build until the part arrives? Or does the motherboard need to be out?
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Yes, the mobo needs to be out to attach the cooler backplate. And it shipped and is "in transit".
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Everything except the cooler arrives today. Cooler left Hong Kong yesterday. Yes, trying to be patient.
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You can always install the PSU, the CD/DVD burner, and the motherboard stand-offs if you want to get a head start. :)
Which reminds me... have you considered converting your external SSD to an internal and mounting it behind the mobo?
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Those are good ideas, for the foreseeable future I think the ECO is going to take up some time. But if I have some quiet time I can start that way.
I think my external is not an SSD. It has no connectors except a USB cable. I also, at least at the moment, think the 500gb M2 will be move than enough. I can use the external for backup storage. I've been recommended a new to me backup program called Casper that I'm going to try. It's supposed to be easier and quicker than EaseUS and Macrium Reflect. We'll see. And thanks.
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Casper looks interesting. I'll have to poke at it when I get some time.
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But to your original point, Newegg Sale this morning, I ordered a Samsung EVO 250gig. I hope Fractal has solved the 90d connection problem.
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Last evening I unboxed the Fractal case and read the user manual. I 'm impressed, kudos to you for finding these. The plan now, as you suggested, is to get started slowly. First order of business is to remove the HD cages. And hopefully a couple of pounds in the process....
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If the SSD still mounts flat against the tray, then both the power and the SATA connectors will need to be straight. Either way, I would still suggest using aluminum rivet washers and longer screws to create space. In my builds I was able to create about 1/4" of space between the tray and the SSD.
I remain very pleased with my Fractal cases. I prefer my R4 over my wife's Arc Midi R2, but both are awesome. Internally they are nearly exactly the same, and removing the HDD cages was easy enough.
Since you are going to have both M.2 SSD & standard SATA SSD, I suggest that you leave the SATA SSD unplugged until after your OS is up and running. That will avoid any confusion on where the OS gets installed, and it will make troubleshooting easier for potential problems. Once Windows is running it will be easy enough to plug the SSD back in.
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This latest SSD is "what if" the M2 faults or has some other problem. Being solid state the SSD can go anywhere with velcro, I don't see any reason why it has to be in the back. But your point about leaving it unplugged is a good suggestion.
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I have a feeling the M.2 will work out just fine. I never thought about using Velcro. Good thinking. ;)
Make sure you have the chipset drivers installed and updated before "testing" the onboard graphics, as the onboard graphics are dependent on the chipset. Other related drivers/updates may be needed as well, such as the Intel Graphics Accelerator driver. On the initial boot into Windows the graphics will leave a little to be desired, so don't let it catch you off guard.
FWIW: I downloaded the latest drivers/software directly from ASUS, as the provided disc is normally already outdated.
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Thanks, did you use the chipset drivers on the disk or did Asus have those as well?
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I did not use anything from the disc. I downloaded everything directly from ASUS.
I recommend against installing the ASUS Ai utility software; assuming it's still an option. It's nothing more than bloated crap.
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Good idea. It's obviously been a while since I've done this. Your help is appreciated.
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Here's the ASUS support link to downloads for your motherboard:
ASUS Z170 PRO GAMING/AURA BIOS/Software/Drivers (https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/Z170-PRO-GAMING-AURA/HelpDesk_Download/)
I'm not entirely sure what Aura V1.05.16 is, or that you need it, but it looks similar to the Ai utility crapware I complained of earlier. I'd put it to the side for now and then forget you have it.
I'm at a loss as to why ASUS feels the need to create software that does nothing more than bog down the works.
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I believe it has something to do with the LEDs on the front of the m/b. Not particularly a fan of flashing lights on a computer, although they seem to be popular with others. Thanks for the link.
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Ah, yes. There's more if you click the "See All Downlods" link under "Utilities". That's where I saw the Ai software (Version 1.01.40) and wrongly attributed to Aura V1.05.16.
Either way, what I learned from my experience is that unless you're confident you need it, then you're better off without it. Even the process of installing and eventually uninstalling ASUS Ai was a total nightmare.
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Tracking info on the cooler from Hong Kong shows it should be here in a couple days. It arrived in the states yesterday.
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I've started. As an aside, it looks like this version of the Fractal has raised mounts for the SSD, maybe 1/4".
Do you recall, there is a wire bundle installed in the case, some of them are front/top USB, etc., but there look to be wires with connectors for the optical drive already in place?
I have to say, so far this case is well thought out, the Seasonic packaging was impressive, as was the stuff that came from Hong Kong. Lots of overkill.
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That's great news on the SSD mount. It's nice to know the problem was addressed. Still, I really like your idea of mounting the SSD using Velcro. Even if you mount it to the back plate, the Velcro would still make servicing the SSD very easy. I wish I had thought of that, but I will keep it in mind if I ever find myself having to remove the SSD. I hope it's something I'll never have to do, as it would currently involve removing the mobo. It could also involve removing both PSU & mobo from my wife's system, depending on which of the two mounted SSD units needs servicing.
As for the bundled wiring, I only recall connectors for the USB, audio/microphone, and case fans, along with the standard mobo connectors.
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I hope all is going well for your new build. Got my fingers crossed for you, despite the arthritis! ;D
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When I quit yesterday, all remaining is to mount the cooler and M2 and then tackle the wiring. But as far as I can tell the only SATA cable is for the optical drive. I think the connections I asked about yesterday are for the USB 2 & 3 front ports. I had a minor problem seating the CPU and it's restraint and I hope I didn't do any damage, have my fingers crossed. I understand it's easy to bend the pins.
I should get to the software later.
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I'm somewhat confused about the SATA cable. Did the motherboard come with a single SATA cable as an accessory? Or does the case have a SATA cable as part of the internal wiring? If it's part of the case wiring, then I can't imagine what its purpose would be other than to feed an external SATA connector. My case does not have such a feature.
Unless you were brutal with the CPU, bent pins are visible and are normally easy to correct with a bit of care. If you in fact had bent pins, you would not have been able to fully seat the CPU.
I'm still hoping all goes well and I'm looking forward to your report. :)
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Thanks, I hadn't considered all that, maybe I was lucky. The CPU is seated properly now. The connectors I asked about are a puzzle, there is one long flat one that looks like SATA but isn't. There are 3 odd shaped ones, sort of fan connector looking, all on very short wires. I haven't found a use for any of them. No matter, I have it together but haven't turned it on yet. I have a few pictures to poast shortly.
The M2 SSD was a shock, it is maybe an inch wide and 2.5" long. I was expecting something much bigger. The mounting screw is smaller than a standard HD mounting screw ands fits into a standoff on the M/B securing the loose end of the M2. It was a bit difficult.
The front panel connectors gave me fits, they're poorly marked and I am not at all certain any of them are right, we'll see.
I decided to mount the EVO SSD on the rear mount as you did but I had a SATA cable with straight ends and was able to use a middle connector on the power cable that feeds the optical drive, and it all fit, tightly but they fit with out modifying the SSD mount.
More to come......
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Much too dark but you get the idea.....
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/foxybill/Rear%20panel2.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/foxybill/media/Rear%20panel2.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/foxybill/Left%20side1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/foxybill/media/Left%20side1.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/foxybill/rear%20SSD%20sm.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/foxybill/media/rear%20SSD%20sm.jpg.html)
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I just discovered I don't have an extra video cable to set up the new machine, I have duplicates of everything else. Start up is going to wait until I can go to walmart....
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Your build looks hauntingly familiar, and is beautifully clean. Good work! :) I really like the change to the SSD mount. I see that the SSD now sits on a detachable mount, whereas mine attaches directly (and flatly) to the back tray. BTW: The problem I had with my SSD mount was with the power cable, not with the SATA cable. Regardless, that problem should not present itself with your new case.
I downloaded the Define R5 user manual (http://support.fractal-design.com/support/solutions/articles/4000038729-define-r5-product-manual). The SATA-looking connector is in fact a receptor for a PSU power connector. It is to provide power from the PSU to the case fans so they can be controlled via the front panel-mounted fan switch (Page 10 of the manual, although no explanation is given). The case fans are then connected directly to the case wiring; not by plugging them into the motherboard's fan connectors. If you connect the case fans directly to the mobo, you will not be able to control the case fan speeds with the switch. My recommendation is to use the switch, as it works exceptionally well. I keep mine at medium speed, #2, and it is barely audible in the dead of night.
I see there is no specific info on the wiring & connectors, beyond what little is on Page 6. Did your mobo come with an adapter to make it easier to connect the power, LED & reset wires? I have never used one, always preferring the direct connection. It is beyond me why mobo & case manufacturers have not come up with a single, universal connector.
I'll gladly pull my computer out and check the connectors if it helps you out. Just say the word and I'll start disassembly.
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Everything seems to be OK at the moment, the fans are behaving OK. Obviously I didn't read enough of the manual!
The M2 needs a driver before win7 install. I downloaded the driver file from Samsung, uncompressed it and put the driver on a Thumb drive that my machine recognizes. However and here is the problem, plugging the thumb drive into the new machine, the BIOS sees it by name but the win7 install disc doesn't see it. It asks for a driver, I scan and the thumb drive is not seen at all.
I'm at a loss, going to take a break. I have an errand to run and maybe then start Googling for a tutorial, or something.
When I get back to it I'm going to recheck the USB connection on the M/B.
Thanks for your help.
BTW the BIOS cpu temp. is 30C with the water cooler.
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Maybe Windows is looking for a compressed file? Is it possible the BIOS needs to be updated first? Looking at your ASUS Z170 PRO mobo's download section (https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/Z170-PRO-GAMING-AURA/HelpDesk_Manual/), they have a Windows 7 setup DVD guide you may want to look at. (Note that this is a .rar download, for which you will need Winzip.)
After poking around YouTube, this solution may work for you: Add NVMe driver support to Windows 7 Installation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQj0yM1Vnbk).
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Thanks I will check those out. And I looked at the R5 user guide and you're right about the fans, I just skipped over it. But that's correctable before I finish.
I will try the compressed file on the thumb drive after I look at the 2 links you found.
EDIT: the Win 7 Setup guide had 2 foreign language versions and the third was for a raid setup. Youtube has a couple of options, the one you linked to moves so fast it's hard to follow, but it seems the win7 install has to be copied to a thumb drive and the M2 driver has to be added, not certain how yet but I will tackle it tomorrow (shooting) or Tuesday. Thanks again. Doesn't seem to be an easy way to do this.
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Last bit of speculation for today. I'd like your opinion...If I install 7 on the rear mounted ssd, I should be able to run the M2 driver compressed file to install the driver for M2. Convoluted but maybe........
EDIT
My Aussie friend found this:
https://www.evga.com/support/faq/afmviewfaq.aspx?faqid=59620
Will try tomorrow........
One of the you tube vids. said the only other way to get the driver into the M2 is via a SATA port, not USB. I'm thinking I could take the new regular SATA drive, attach it to my old system and put the M2 driver on it, put it back into the new one and see if the Win7 installer will recognize the SATA drive as a source. Probably worth a try.......
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I'm out with my wife and on my smartphone, but your last idea seems worth a try.
How about installing the drivers to the rear mounted SSD?
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I should have read your poast carefully. I see my last idea is the one you already plan on trying.
I know your mobo recognizes both PCIe & SATA M.2 SSDs. Is there a setting for that in the BIOS, or is the M.2 automatically recognized in the proper mode?
As for your idea of installing 7 on the read-mounted SSD in hopes of installing the driver to the M.2, I suppose it could potentially work. No harm in trying, but I'd probably save that for last.
In your mobo user manual (page 2-50 of the downloaded ASUS Z170 PRO English manual (https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/Z170-PRO-GAMING-AURA/HelpDesk_Manual/)), it states that some drivers from the included DVD have to be pre-loaded for Windows 7 to install. Maybe this is related and something worth researching? EDIT: After reading that section again I realize it does not apply to the problem you're having. It's only for pre-loading USB 3.0 drivers.
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Thanks for all that, sorry to interrupt your evening. We have discovered the problem with using the rear SSD. The Samsung driver is embedded in an install package - an .exe file. Win 7 install can't deal with the .exe file, only needs the 64 bit driver itself.
The problem Aussie and I are trying to solve now is how to extract the 64 bit driver from the .exe file. Apparently there are thousands of people dealing with this right now.
One of the suggested methods is to use a program named WIX tool kit, an unknown for me, but some on Tom's Hardware are suggesting a very complicated process......
I'd think Samsung or one of the biggies would put out a tutorial, but that would be too easy.
More to follow I hope.....
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No interruption at all, I just didn't want to leave you hanging.
I didn't think this would be anywhere as difficult as it is. Is the problem specifically related to installing Windows 7 on an M.2, or is it with any OS?
I cannot understand why Samsung wouldn't simply provide the needed driver so that it is easily recognized by the OS during installation. Damn.
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POSSIBLE SOLUTION!
Check out this reply from "parsec" about half way down the page: Install Windows 7 on 960 EVO (http://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=4248&title=install-windows-7-on-960-evo)
The last link on his reply takes you to a secondary source for the "pure" driver that you need.
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From what I have read, win 8.1 and forward don't have this problem, just win 7 and earlier.
The plan for this afternoon and maybe tomorrow is to install win 7 on the rear SSD, download and run the M2 driver package and then, with some luck, clone or reinstall Win 7 to the M2. I may have to install something like Easy BCD to be able to boot initially to the M2 and then wipe the rear SSD. All the while hoping that wiping the first install doesn't remove the SAmsung driver.
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Great I will look. You poasted when I was writing.
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Per my last poast, here's the direct link to Samsung's Windows 7 64-bit driver:
https://mega.nz/#!IQkWQTbZ!eN6kChpMfmKgmRaSfkon1VChiNZrsjx2_VqCuH1SE6M (https://mega.nz/#!IQkWQTbZ!eN6kChpMfmKgmRaSfkon1VChiNZrsjx2_VqCuH1SE6M)
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That same help thread on the ASRock forum had other ideas that may be worth following up if needed.
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OK, I have now d/l and unzipped and have 1 .cat file, 1 .inf file and 2 sys files in a folder. What to do with them is next. I'll re-read the thread and look at ASRock forum, have to get ready to Pick up George and clean the ECO. You have been a great help.
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You might be ahead of me on this, but reference the ASRock help thread this is the link for the step-by-step procedure...
NotebookReview: Installing Windows 7 on an NVME SSD (http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/guide-installing-windows-7-on-an-nvme-ssd-from-a-usb-3-0-thumbdrive.783921/) (Note that according to parsec, it's important to follow every step perfectly.)
Looks like several steps are involved. Good luck!
P.S. Please give my best wishes to George and his lovely bride.
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Will do, they think a lot of you. I will get back to this fight later, thanks again.
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I just read the parsec procedure you linked above. Talk about long and complex but there are some steps in there that make me just placing the driver files on the rear SSD won't work. I'm going to read the other option on that page and decide if it sounds reasonable before trying parsec's option.
\
EDIT: the other option, for me, doesn't sound workable. I have a formatted 8g thumb drive and I'm going to try parsesc's procedure.
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Now I do need your help. I've forgotten all the cmd (dos) commands. I have to get from C:\users\Bill to this folder on G: G:\USB3 Fix
Ideas for Tuesday? Too late today for me -tired.
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Holy cow, Bill. I have not used DOS in 20+ years. Thankfully the commands are relatively basic and simple. ;D
To change to another drive and then to another directory is easy.
***Leave out the quotation marks in my examples.***
1. In the command prompt, simply type and enter "G:"
2. Once in G:, change to the sub-directory by typing and entering "CD\USB3 Fix" (Note the back slash, not front slash)
3. When in a command prompt, you can review the directory files by typing and entering "DIR"
4. To get back to C:, simply type and enter "C:"
5. Entering "CD.." takes you back one sub-directory at a time until you hit the root directory
6. Entering "CD\" immediately takes you to the root directory of whatever drive you're in
7. Entering "Exit" closes the command prompt
You can go straight to a deep sub-directory by entering "CD\FirstDirectory\Second\Third\Fourth\AndSoOn"
BTW: The commands are not case sensitive. Also, in DOS a "folder" is called a "directory". Thus the command CD means Change Directory.
DOS is unforgiving to any typos or misspellings. If a command does not work, double check the characters, spaces (if any), etc.
Scuzzy; thanks for the walk down memory lane. :)
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Again, thank you very much. I am about 2/3 of the way thru persec's procedure and hope to get through it today, maybe this morning. Not really difficult but very tedious.
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Good luck.
Scuzzy; rootin' for ya.
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When you have time, I'm confused...
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/guide-installing-windows-7-on-an-nvme-ssd-from-a-usb-3-0-thumbdrive.783921/
After the first DOS operation with the "boot.wim" file which all worked fine, Just below the cmd window in the Guide it says do the same thing to the "install.wim" file. Huh? I have gotten to the point where the install.wim file has been mounted. The next operation with the boot.wim file was to add drivers for USB3.
Do you think I am to add drivers to the Install. wim file as well? That seems redundant but maybe...I'm not sure it would do any harm...what do you think?
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I'll take a look.
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I've just re-read the second box of code and line 2 answered the question - yes. Sorry I'm just not really comfortable with this. I will add the drivers to the Index : 2 which is windows 7 Home premium and see what happens.
EDIT: the author left out the spaces required with the code in the second box. Guess I'm OK now. Thanks.
Edit: that all worked, moving now to replacing the 2 files in the windows install image on the thumb drive and adding NVMe drivers. Getting closer!!!
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Yes, I understood the instructions as doing the same. If you continue in the step-by-step instructions,...
I was just going to explain what you apparently figured out. :)
If you think a phone call will help, we'll work it out together. Looks like you're making good progress though.
Scuzzy; standing by.
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Success!! Windows has loaded and is setting up. Couple of odd things, didn't get the option to format or partition. Don't yet have internet so for the moment, loading drivers from ASUS disk. Will update later. Thanks.
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Excellent! Excellent! Excellent!
Damn good work, Bill!
Scuzzy; woohoo!!!
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Thanks you helped alot. Presently updating 131 important (only) updates. 'bout 100 to go, we'll see how it goes.
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I'm glad I could help you out. It sounds like you've get this under control now. I'll check back once in awhile to check on your progress.
Again, good work. I'm proud of you for seeing it through. ;D
BTW: I still recommend that you install all of the optional updates as well, with maybe two or three excluded. For example, I remember leaving out some sort of Skype update as it wasn't something that I was interested in at the time. Installing all of the updates should not cause you any problems or concerns on a fresh Windows 7 installation. Plus, you will be able to control how you receive future updates as always.
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This is ironic. As I was getting ready to click "Post" on my last message (reference the updates), my Windows 10 system told me that new updates were just installed on my computer and that the system needed to restart. I looked over at my wife's system and it had the same message. Both systems were just rebooted.
Scuzzy; *sigh*
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I have limited updates to "important" ones and they're done. The only other things I have done is load MSSE and "unchecky" which I have found to be very useful.
Have to run an errand for my son, but I will keep you poasted. Don't know yet when I'm going to switch systems. Now I have the old one on one monitor and the new one on the other. 2 keyboards and 2 mice, gets confusing some....
Maybe more later.......
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This morning I ran Crystal Disk Mark on the M2. Here are the results: read 3306 write 1696
My Plextor numbers are : read 496 write 263
Pretty impressive.
I also dumped the old wired mouse (15yrs. old) in favor of a M510 I had on hand, what a difference. I am however using the M318e on the old system.
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The numbers are certainly impressive, but how does that translate to everyday use? I know you just got the system up and running yesterday, but is it planting your butt in your seat when you boot it up? Lol
Out of curiosity, is all the work you did yesterday saved? If you were building an identical system would you be able to use the flash drive you created, or would you have to start over?
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The flash drive is reusable if the M2 is a Samsung. The included drivers are specific to the 950 and 960. I hope if I ever have too do this again Samsung will have developed a solution.
For the time being I have the drive on my desk.
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Got it. The different drivers, depending on the SSD, makes sense.
So, does the system feel fast? Quick boot times? Applications?
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Having had some think time, I think the flash drive could be modified for other brands. The Samsung drivers are in a folder on the thumb drive named NVME. One could change that folder name and contents with drivers for another brand, I think.
But I wouldn't want to have to do it again.
And the answer to "does it plant me in the seat", I don't really know yet. Both are running side by side, each on one monitor. But I'm not sure if the new one is really faster. My internet connection has just been improved now with 50 up and down from 15 up and down. That difference I can see and I'll probably keep it when the trial is over for an additional $10.00/ month. I'm not certain how to test the two other than by watching.
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During the last 2 days I've been running the 2 machines side by side, the new one is not quite ready to take over. But I've tried watching the same web site, using the same browser on both monitors and I can clearly see the difference between the Intel onboard graphics and the Gtx 550. Colors, vibrance, and depth are noticeable. (The monitors are both ASUS 23" IPS and about a couple of months different in age.) I haven't decided yet if I want to put up with that difference for about $150.
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I am unable to see any difference between my system and my wife's, but they are not exactly side-by-side. Is moving the GTX-550 from the old system an option?
It's awesome that you can get 50Mbps up/down speeds. It could be many, many years before I have that option here. :(
BTW: How's the boot time for the new system?
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Moving the GTX 550 is an option. The old ASUS board has a DVI and a D-sub connector, I think it unlikely I would ever want to run 2 monitors again on the old system. I do have a couple of really old LG Flatrons and I might use one with the old box, just need another DVI cable. Good thought.
I have been dragging my feet about switching machines, kind of like retiring an old, faithful companion. But it's going to happen soon. The m318e and K800 keyboard on the new system will help with the adjustment.
But there are differences, no matter what. Just little things like KingSoft Writer, has been acquired by someone and is now WPS Suite. The first two sessions with the word processor had a very annoying ad that simply wouldn't go away.
I haven't timed it but its very quick, I have set an option in the BIOS "time lapse after POST" to 3 seconds.
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I like the idea of moving the 550. I have one other question before I put the covers on and push it under the desk. You have two fans in front; did you do that because you needed it or because you had one? I have an unused Noctura 120mm fan I could install if necessary. As it is I have the stock fans front and rear that came with case, I think they're 140mm.
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My wife's case shipped with 2 fans in front, whereas my R4 only had one in front. I opted to purchase another 140mm fan and I installed it without a hitch. It wasn't necessary, but since I have the fanless PSU I thought it would be a good idea. My system remains very quiet, so no harm either way.
Keep in mind that a different manufacturer's fan may not spin at the same rates as what came with the case, and may not spin at all at the lowest setting.
My advice is that unless you know you need another fan, you most likely don't. But if you decide to install another, stick with 140mm.
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This morning I moved the 550Ti. The new system is now under the desk and I d/l the latest driver from Nvidia. All is well, graphics look great and the temps are running in the low 40s. Next to tackle is migrating email data and settings to a new d/l of Tbird.
So far I'm very pleased.
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This may have been a very timely effort. My old system put up a BSOD this afternoon, it's first. Something about a Power - Driver.
It has rebooted so it may have been a fluke.
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Huh. I wonder what that's about.
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I haven't a clue but it's been fine since. When I rebooted Windows said "Windows has recovered." But nothing else.
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So what do you make of the CPU liquid cooler?
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I think it's great. CPU temp as I am typing is 28C. I am speculating but the absence of the heat coming out of the air cooler keeps everything else cooler as well. The one I bought has a single fan radiator but is available for a little more money with a dual fan radiator. My Aussie buddy opined that the dual setup is overkill.
www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=maelstrom&ignorear=0&N=-1&isNodeId=1
And while we're at it, despite the difficulty with Win 7 and the M-2, I'd guess the M-2 is 2-3 times faster than the "old" style SSD with things like opening programs. Sometimes it's hard to tell whether my increased internet speed or the M-2 , or both are producing the speed I'm feeling.