Date: 05 December 22, 12:51 PM
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 Nick's ATX Build



scuzzy


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This is just a starting point. There will be plenty to consider, such as Intel vs AMD, etc. Regardless of the form factor you choose, start with a quality case.

Here's a starting point for a mid-ATX build (with current Newegg prices listed):

Fractal Design Define 7 Case $115 + 16 S/H = $131


ASUS TUF B550-PLUS WIFI II AMD AM4 ATX Motherboard $174

AMD Ryzen 7 5700G - Ryzen 7 5000 G-Series Cezanne CPU $297

G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB PC RAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) $130

Samsung 980 PRO M.2 2280 500GB PCIe Gen 4.0 x4, NVMe Internal SSD $100

EVGA 650 B5, 80 Plus Bronze 650W Fully Modular PSU $90

Build total: $906 or $791 excluding the case (price does not include OS, dedicated video card, additional SSD, CD/DVD, etc.)

scuzzy


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Here are a couple considerations for a Gold standard PSU:

Fractal Design Ion SFX 650G 80 Plus Gold Certified 650W PSU $110

CORSAIR RM650 650W ATX 80 Plus GOLD Certified PSU $120

And, here's a Platinum standard PSU:

Fractal Design Ion+ 2 ATX 80 Plus Platinum Certified 660W PSU $125

Gold PSUs will have higher quality components than Bronze, and Platinum PSUs will have higher quality components than Gold. As the quality goes up, the efficiency goes up, and the heat generated (which equates to lost power) will go down.

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Other motherboard considerations:

ASUS TUF GAMING B550-PRO AM4 ATX Motherboard (non-WiFi, PRO edition) $160, with promo code ASUSJUN333

The PRO version has some extra USB ports, including a USB-C 3.1 port for the case, which the PLUS version does not have. More at ASUS:

   TUF Gaming B550-PLUS (non-WiFi)

   TUF Gaming B550-PRO (non-WiFi)

Both have dual M.2 slots, with heatsinks, so there is no need to spend extra on SSDs with a preinstalled heatsink.

The PRO version is the way to go, if nothing else just for the USB-C port for your case.

Here's an MSI WiFi 6 mobo worth considering as well, which includes a USB-C 3.1 port for the case:

MSI MPG B550 GAMING EDGE WiFi AM4 B550 ATX Motherboard $199

scuzzy


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When selecting your NVMe SSDs, keep in mind that the primary M.2 slots on these motherboards support PCIe 4.0 x4, but the secondary M.2 slots only support PCIe 3.0 x4.

For a primary drive, consider Samsung 980 PRO M.2 2280 500GB PCIe Gen 4.0 x4, NVMe Internal SSD $100

For a secondary NVMe, something like this will work fine: Samsung 980 M.2 2280 1TB PCIe Gen 3.0 x4, NVMe Internal SSD $100

For additional SATA SSD storage, consider something like this: SAMSUNG 870 EVO Series 2.5" 1TB SATA Internal SSD (SSD) $100

Or something larger, like this: SAMSUNG 870 EVO Series 2.5" 2TB SATA Internal SSD (SSD) $205

scuzzy


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nick


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So I looked into the Ryzen 7 5700G and it does support onboard graphics.
Here's an article by PCGamer to support that claim.

https://www.pcgamer.com/amd-ryzen-7-5700g-review-benchmarks/

There are a few drawbacks though the processor does not support PCei 4.0 which means it will not work with the latest SSDs
and after double-checking with the Samsung SSD that I ordered being a PCei gen 4 I think I am looking for a new processor.
Thoughts? Am I correct?

scuzzy


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Yes, the 5700G supports graphics. No arguments there. My comment was that not all AMD CPUs have onboard graphics, so watch for that in your considerations. It looks like the "G" denotes graphics, and an "X" denotes non-graphics.

Good catch on the lack of PCIe 4.0 support, though. The motherboards listed above support PCIe 4.0, but I'm reading that an AMD CPU requires an X570 motherboard for PCIe 4.0. The above motherboards are all the B550 chipset, so I'm a bit confused on how they support PCIe 4.0 for AMD 5000 series, but apparently don't.

I'm not finding AMD CPUs that support PCIe 4.0 *and* onboard graphics, but here's a non-graphics CPU as an option:

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X - Vermeer 8-Core 3.8 GHz 105W CPU $309

One thing to consider with this CPU is the larger wattage draw (105W vs 65W). That means selecting an appropriate PSU as well, in the 700W to 750W range. A graphics card would also be required, which adds $150 to $200 for something decent. No HSF (heat sink / fan) is included with this CPU, so you would have to get one separately, such as liquid cooling that we discussed. That adds $100-ish to the build.

You CAN use the Samsung 980 PRO PCIe 4.0 SSD with the motherboards listed above, as well as with the AMD 5700 CPU. The con is that it will only work at PCIe 3.0 speeds. The PCIe 4.0 throughput is double that of PCIe 3.0, so it's a significant difference. However, it is backwards compatible.

BTW, a Samsung 970 PRO M.2 2280 512GB PCIe 3.0 costs $165, so you're still better off with the 980 PRO that you bought. But, you could save a few bucks by downgrading to the 970 EVO PLUS M.2 2280 500GB PCIe 3.0, which is currently selling for $80. If it were me making the decision for myself, I'd keep the 980 PRO.

Hmm. I wonder if a B550 motherboard supports PCIe 4.0, only in that it will allow its use, but at the slower v3.0 speed. I dunno.

I'll look deeper into this and the available options.

Informative reads:

PCGuide 101: Which Intel and AMD CPUs Support PCIe 4.0?

TechReviewer: Which Intel and AMD CPUs Support PCIe 4.0? (2022)

PCGuide 101: Can You Use a PCIe 4.0 SSD On Your Existing Motherboard?

ONLOGIC Blog: Your Ultimate Guide to Understanding PCIe Gen 4.0 (this article states that "Ryzen 3000 and 5000 Series Processors by AMD" support PCIe 4.0, although I am guessing that it is only certain models, such as the 5800X)

scuzzy


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This AMD Ryzen 5 5600X Vermeer 6-Core 3.7 GHz 65W CPU supports PCIe 4.0, and is currently listed for $210. Aside from saving $$$, it remains an incredible performer for your needs. More at WePC: Ryzen 5 Vs Ryzen 7.

You can further save on RAM, since the Ryzen 5 only supports up to 2933MHz: Mushkin Enhanced Redline 32GB DDR4 3200 RAM $106, or this G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB DDR4 3200 RAM for $110. Both Mushkin and G.SKILL make excellent memory, so either will perform well. Corsair, Patriot, Kingston, Hyper X, and Crucial brands are great considerations as well.

A matching MSI MAG X570S TOMAHAWK MAX WiFi X570 AMD Motherboard goes for $230.

You could match that with something like this ASRock Challenger Radeon RX 6400 4GB GDDR6 PCIe 4.0 Video Card, currently selling for $170.

scuzzy


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So based on the above changes, here's one possibility:

Fractal Design Define 7 Case $115

MSI Mag X570S Tomahawk Max WiFi X570 AMD Motherboard $230

AMD Ryzen 5 5600X 6-Core 3.7 GHz 65W CPU $200

Fractal Design Celsius S24 240mm Silent High Performance CPU Liquid Cooler $115

ASRock Challenger Radeon RX 6400 4GB GDDR6 PCIe 4.0 Video Card $170

Mushkin Enhanced Redline 32GB DDR4 3200 RAM $106

Samsung 980 PRO M.2 2280 500GB PCIe Gen 4.0 x4, NVMe Internal SSD $100

Fractal Design Ion SFX 650G 80 Plus Gold Certified 650W PSU $110 + $6 S/H = $116

This build total is now at $1,152, or $1,037 excluding the case. The OS and additional SSD storage will add $200 to $300, depending on your needs. Note that the above build is nothing to sneeze at, and would run circles around my current builds all day long.

BTW, I'm learning that the B550 chipset motherboards remain a consideration, but the X570S motherboards outperform the B550 (and have silent chipset cooling as well). More at Tom's HARDWARE: Best B550 Motherboards 2022: AMD’s More Affordable PCIe 4.0 Option

More: The B550 chipset supports v4.0 for storage, but the remaining PCIe lanes are 3.0. The X570S chipset additionally supports v4.0 across the general purpose PCIe lanes, and the CPU chipset up link. The more I learn of the differences between the two, the more I lean toward the X570S chipset.

Looking at the specs at MSI, the Tomahawk motherboard supports PCIe 4.0 for the listed Ryzen 5 5600X. The bonus is that both M.2 slots support PCIe 4.0, so your secondary NVMe SSD (M.2) can be v4.0 as well.

More at MSI: MAG X570S TOMAHAWK MAX WIFI

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Check out PCPartPicker. It has lots of useful information for PC building, along with price lists. The site also has multiple suggested builds under Build Guides, and warns of potential compatibility issues, estimated wattage, and more.

BTW, I've been meaning to tell you that you can use either Radeon or NVIDIA graphics with your build, regardless of CPU.

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As you are putting your system together, keep in mind that you still have flexibility. We talked about CPU liquid cooling, but you can go with traditional air cooling and save some money. There's plenty of good options, but something like this will save you a lot of cash:

DeepCool AK400 Performance CPU Cooler $30 + $3 S/H

If you prefer an upgrade to that, then Noctua should be high on your list:

Noctua NH-D9L, Premium CPU Cooler with NF-A9 92mm Fan $55 + $1 S/H

What would I do? I'd probably go with liquid cooling, but more than anything it would be to reduce clutter. However, there's nothing wrong with traditional air cooling, especially if you don't plan to overclock. Even so, the Noctua air cooled setup that I currently have allows for overclocking.

Just to muddy things, you could put the money you save toward a CPU upgrade:

AMD Ryzen 7 5700X 8-Core 3.4 GHz 65W $299

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 8-Core 3.8 GHz 105W $314 (on sale until the end of today)

If I were to go this route, I'd go for the 5700X instead. The difference in clock frequency will not be noticeable in everyday work, and the 5700X is a 65-watt processor, vs the 5800X's 105-watt.


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Is Intel an option? Here's something to think about... the Intel i5-12600K outperforms the Ryzen 7 5700X in just about everything, it supports the newest PCIe 5.0 and DDR5 memory, it includes onboard graphics, AND it's cheaper. You'll just need to select a compatible LGA 1700 motherboard.

An Intel DDR4 build would look something like this:

Fractal Design Define 7 Case $115

MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4 LGA 1700 Intel ATX Motherboard $200

Intel Core i5-12600K 12th Gen Alder Lake 10-Core 3.7 GHz 125W w/UHD Graphics 770 CPU $278

Noctua NH-D9L, Premium CPU Cooler with NF-A9 92mm Fan $55

Mushkin Enhanced Redline 32GB DDR4 3200 RAM $106

Samsung 980 PRO M.2 2280 500GB PCIe Gen 4.0 x4, NVMe Internal SSD $100

Fractal Design Ion SFX 650G 80 Plus Gold Certified 650W PSU $110 + $6 S/H = $116

This build total is $970, or $855 excluding the case. Add $200 to $300, for OS & storage.

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An Intel DDR5 build would look something like this (storage remains at PCIe 4.0):

Fractal Design Define 7 Case $115

MSI PRO Z690-A WiFi DDR5 Intel ATX Motherboard $230 (equivalent to Z690-A DDR4 motherboard, but with DDR5 & WiFi)

Intel Core i5-12600K 12th Gen Alder Lake 10-Core 3.7 GHz 125W w/UHD Graphics 770 CPU $278

Noctua NH-D9L, Premium CPU Cooler with NF-A9 92mm Fan $55

Kingston Fury Beast 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5 4800 RAM $190

Samsung 980 PRO M.2 2280 500GB PCIe Gen 4.0 x4, NVMe Internal SSD $100

EVGA SuperNOVA 750 G6, 80 Plus Gold 750W Fully Modular PSU $90

Note that the EVGA SuperNOVA 80 Plus Gold 750W PSU is currently on sale for $90. The extra wattage it provides is a bonus for the Intel i5 requirement (125W to 150W), and it leaves plenty of headroom for a future video card and other peripherals. If it gains your approval, I'd say get it now while it's available. Since shipping is included, it will save $26 total over the Fractal Design.

This build total is $1,058, or $943 excluding the case. Add $200 to $300, for OS & storage.

IMHO, this is a much better option than the Ryzen 7 5700X, and a significant upgrade from Ryzen 5 5600X. The DDR5 memory is a really nice boost from DDR4, and you get the benefit of an APU (onboard graphics).

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Note that the sale on the EVGA power supply ends today. I also checked the Core i5 CPU price, and it dropped to $260 from yesterday's $278. I don't know how long that will last though.

The Samsung PRO 980 is now $120, so good thing you ordered it when you did.

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The EVGA SuperNOVA 650 G+, 80 Plus Gold 650W Fully Modular PSU is currently on sale at Amazon for $70.

I did a quick check at OuterVision Power Supply Calculator, and 650W is more than sufficient for a Core i5-12600K build, even with an eventual video card. They recommend the EVGA 650 GT (currently $65) for your build, but it only has a 7-year warranty.

I'd spend the extra $5 for the 10-year warranty that the G+ offers, and it's likely an overall better build quality.

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The PSU looks like a solid buy. I do have questions about PSUs.
Do I have to use only certain ones for the different processors and motherboards or does the case size limit it? 

I am looking at this MSi motherboard

https://www.newegg.com/msi-mpg-b550-gaming-edge-wifi/p/N82E16813144324

it has everything I want a USB C, WiFi, HDMI, and supports DDR4 Ram. It also supports the AMD 5000 series for the processor and the price is pretty good I was figuring around $300 a piece for the chip and motherboard

Thanks for your input.

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As far as the PSU is concerned, you'll want something that fits your case. AMD vs Intel is irrelevant. The most important thing will be features, such as being fully modular, as well as the efficiency. You'll be best off with at least a gold standard.

The mobo you linked looks solid, but keep in mind that the second M.2 slot only supports PCIe 3.0. Otherwise, it appears to be a good choice. If you go with a video card, then the onboard graphics won't mean anything... including HDMI. All that will be determined by the video card you choose.

Is the Core i5-12600K out of consideration? The choice is ultimately yours, but you should take a closer look. I have no problem with either AMD or Intel, but each time I build a computer I look closely as which is the best deal at the time for my needs. IMO, the i5 blows the doors off of the Ryzen 5 and 7 series. Not only is the price better, but you're getting PCIe 5.0 support, DDR5 RAM option, and onboard graphics.

Also consider the MSI DDR5 Intel motherboard that I listed. It supports a total of four M.2 slots; three are PCIe 4.0 and one is PCIe 3.0. (BTW, a DDR5 motherboard requires DDR5 memory, and a DDR4 motherboard requires DDR4 memory. They are not interchangeable.)

I really do think an Core i5 build is the way to go, but as I said, it's ultimately your choice. However, I'd hate to see you hamstring yourself. You're dropping quite a bit of cash on this build, and you'll have it for years to come. While there is nothing inherently wrong with an AMD build, think it through and make sure that it's what you want.

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The PSU is on its way to you!

I choose the EVGA 750 Supernova because it was on sale at NewEgg, Yes it was $20 bucks more than the EVGA 650 model at Amazon but I figure 20 bucks for 100 watts more power was a fair trade both are the Gold series and fully modular as you recommended

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Sweet. I'm sure that the G6 is a fine choice. I'll keep an eye out for the package.

Where are your thoughts on AMD vs Intel?

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I am a bit confused. I was looking into ram after I finished reading the article that you posted earlier. Are there certain brands of ram that only work with one processor and not another. for example:

Both the G. Skill RipJaw and TridentZ say Intel XMP does this mean it can only be paired with an Intel Processor?
(and yes I know one is DDR 4 and the other is DDR 5)

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I took a close look at this. Intel's Extreme Memory Profile (XMP) is an automated overclocking technology that is a moot point, unless you plan to overclock an Intel Core CPU. It also has to be configured in the BIOS/UEFI in order to get the added boost. The bottom line is that XMP is an option available only for Intel Core CPUs, but XMP-enabled RAM will work perfectly fine with AMD.

On a related note, AMD's version is Accelerated Memory Profiles (AMP). Ryzen's Accelerated Memory Profile (RAMP) is also being thrown around as a possible name. Regardless of what it's called, AMP will be available for AMD's upcoming AM5 socket. If I had to take a Scientific Wild Ass Guess, I'd say that future RAM sticks will support both XMP and AMP.

Just another thing to know. But if you don't overclock, it won't matter anyway.

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As an FYI, I'm not pushing you to get a Core i5 over a Ryzen 5 or 7. I believe it's worth a close look, but ultimately you have to decide what's best for your needs and your budget. As I said before, there is nothing inherently wrong with choosing an AMD build.

Keep in mind that if you want PCIe 4.0 support, then you can't have an AMD solution with onboard graphics. With Core i5 you can have both, plus the added support of PCIe 5.0 and DDR5 RAM. The downside is the power requirement... nearly double that of most Ryzen CPUs (125W vs 65W). Of course, running a separate video card with an AMD CPU would draw more power as well.

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Ok so I am considering this motherboard and chip combination

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813144503 MSi PRO Z690

https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i5-12600k-core-i5-12th-gen/p/N82E16819118347

Do you see any potential problems with this setup?


scuzzy


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Under the assumption that you want DDR5 RAM, that looks like a good combination. The mobo has four M.2 slots; three of which run PCIe 4.0. You get USB-C support for your case, as well as built-in WiFi 6 & Bluetooth 5.2. The Core i5-12600K CPU has onboard APU, so a separate graphics card is not required. Looks like win-win for your needs.

All that's left is to decide on RAM and a CPU cooler (air cooled vs liquid). For memory, I'd look at DDR5 4800 RAM, which will pair up with the Core i5-12600K perfectly. I think 32GB total (2 x 16GB) is the sweet spot for years to come, even if you decide to go with Windows 11.

This deal over at Amazon is probably the best DDR5 RAM option at the moment:

Kingston Fury Beast 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5 4800 RAM $190

Should you decide on liquid cooled, for an extra $5 I'd take the S36 over the S24:

Fractal Design Celsius S36 360mm Silent High Performance CPU Liquid Cooler $120

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Looking at today's prices, the motherboard and the CPU are available for a little less. Although the motherboard is still priced the same, it is currently available with a $20 rebate. The CPU's price is also down by $13:

MSI PRO Z690-A WiFi DDR5 Intel ATX Motherboard $230 (with additional $20 rebate)

Intel Core i5-12600K 12th Gen Alder Lake 10-Core 3.7 GHz 125W w/UHD Graphics 770 CPU $265

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Here's an informative article from Tom'sHardware:

DDR5 vs DDR4: Is It Time To Upgrade Your RAM?

The bottom line is that DDR4 is the better value. However, the article was published in December 2021, or six months ago. That can be a lifetime when it comes to computer tech.

Staying with the Core i5-12600K and choosing a DDR4 motherboard and RAM remains a viable option. DDR4 is mature, and it would save you a considerable amount of cash. Another thing is that PCIe 5.0 is in its infancy, with few peripherals to support it anyway.

There's nothing wrong with choosing DDR5. It all depends on your budget and what makes you happy, but "bang for the buck" remains in DDR4's corner, at least for now.

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